whiz944

PHEVs represent both the best and worst of both worlds though. You still have all the mechanical complexity and maintenance (though not as much) of the ICE, and the limited EV-only range of a degraded 2011 Leaf. Plus the extra cost of integrating both. So you'll either be charging it every day vs maybe a couple times a week with a longer range BEV, or give up and drive it as a "self-charging hybrid" (Toyota-speak). The smallish battery pack means limited performance on EV only. Also lots of charge/discharge cycles - which leads to faster degradation than a BEV with a much larger pack.

I should note that my wife's daily driver is a 2016 Chevy Volt. It offered ~54 miles of EV range when new, though a bit degraded now with high-30s/low-40s miles with 70k miles on the clock. The Voltec powertrain is somewhat unique in the PHEV space as it was really designed to operate as an EV first, with the ICE as a secondary propulsion method. Most PHEVs seem to be hacks where the ICE powertrain was modified to add some EV propulsion. The Volt worked really well for her commute at the time as she could charge it at both work and home. So she'd use zero gas for weeks at a time. In the days when the voltstats.net game was active our Volt ("whiz Volt") made it all the way to #8 on the Voltstats Hall of Fame. Her commute eventually got longer, and no more charging at work. So she had to use a bit of gas on the way home. A couple of other Volt owners passed us. At the time Voltstats was frozen, we ended up at #10.

For her, she really likes the Volt and its take on PHEVs. She isn't into fancy/fast cars, and the idea of having the gas backup gives her a lot of comfort - even though we only add gas to it every few months. For road trips we always take my Tesla. Nonetheless, we'll probably be buying her a Model Y later this year (replacing my very aged Suburban) and the Volt will get handed down to one of the kids.

As far as other PHEVs go, I think the NLA Honda Clarity, Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan, and the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime have drivetrains similar to the Voltec. E.g., based around a planetary gearbox with multiple inputs and some clutching. No traditional transmission. The Mitsu Outlander PHEV has its own take. For a number of years it was one of the best selling plug-in vehicles in Europe, but arrived in North America way to late to make any impact. I've read that the new 2023 version is a vast improvement over the previous gen, but haven't seen one up close yet. The Jeep 4xe drivetrain is back to a traditional ICE setup with electric motors attached hack. (I do think a Grand Wagoneer 4xe, with McIntosh sound system, would be Very Cool! Would be great for the few days a year I go off-road camping - and currently take my Suburban.)

kort677

a flawed assessment, while the range is certainly low the car is capable of going a lot further than an old leaf by using the gas engine. as I noted, most of the driving of my wife's car is under that threshold. as for charging often, what's the big issue? you park your car in your garage, you plug it in and voila the next day off you go, repeat as needed

whiz944

It is my assessment after 7+ years of owning a PHEV. From a high level point of view, they made sense 10 years ago when Li-ion batteries cost north of $1000/kWh. The manufacturers could use a much smaller battery pack and still get many of the EV benefits, while falling back on the ICE as needed. Now that battery costs are dipping below $100/kWh, and headed towards $50, it seems to be much harder for manufacturers to justify the extra costs of integrating two drivetrains. GM dropped the Volt almost immediately after the Bolt EV went into production. Ford did the same with their Energi PHEV twins (Fusion and C-Max) when the Mach-E was about to hit the streets. (OTOH, Toyota only replaced the pathetic Plug-in Prius with the somewhat improved Prius Prime. Maybe now that they fired Toyoda they'll finally change course.)

As I mentioned above, my wife really likes the whole PHEV concept - and it has worked well for her. Nonetheless, they really are a transitional technology. I do still think there is a place for them in large SUVs and light trucks - for a while. I look at the Lightning and Rivians that only get 2 miles/kWh and shake my head in dismay. It will be interesting to see how the Cybertruck compares - since it's design promises better aerodynamics than a traditional ICE pickup shape.

Dr. G7

Well, that performance is needed for the visits to the the grocery store, nail salon and beauty spa.

Dr. G7

Of course. Doesn't everyone who owns a Hybrid or Electric have their own garage? Silly me think overwise.

kort677

if you do not have a dedicated place to charge your car owning an EV is problematic. wasting so much time at public chargers is not wise