Redhot2474

dang, this **** is gold! Thank you, I’m devouring this info. Few more questions for you. To continue to use the Tesla charger in my parking garage , do I need the j1772 adapter? If not, can you put a link to one I would need? My building also has the EVgo chargers, it currently gives me about 25 miles back to my Tesla an hour, I assume thus would do the same for my Taycan? Would I need an adapter for that?

daveo4porsche

I've owned EV's since 2012/2013 - and had 6 Teslas (never more than 2 at once) at a functional fast charger of 150 kW or more the taycan _IS_ the fastest charging EV available on the market today based on my personal experience - and it's not the maximum speed (270 kW) that makes it fast - it's the taper curve that makes it fast - it's not how fast you can charge the car that makes it charge fast - it's how long you can sustain a "rate of charge" vs. battery SOC (State of Charge or % of charger) - as SOC rises from 5% to 10% to 20% etc…most EV's have to "lower" the maximum charge rate to prevent damage to the battery and maintain longevity of the LiON cells for the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty…

the Taycan has the best charging curve of _ANY_ EV I've experienced - it does not drop below 100/120 kW until well after 70% SOC - which means for the most part you're charging at a very very high rate of charge until deep into the SOC battery percentage.

my Teslas all charged fast at 10% or 20% battery - but quickly dropped below 100 kW before 50% battery - and then from 50% to 90% was well below a 100 kw charge rate - which means they charge slower...

at a 150 kW charger the Taycan can "flat line" at 150 kW until about 75% SOC and only after 7x% does it start to drop off and even then it's still above 100 kW until almost 90% by which point you're going to unplug and leave for the next fast charger because the last 10% takes as long as the previous 80% due to the charging taper curve…

it's not how fast you can charge - it's how long you can maintain a high charge rate - and the Taycan can do 120-200 kW for _MOST_ of the battery's SOC range - which means - basically at a 120-150 kW charger you're never there for more than 30 minutes…before you're going to be at 85-90% battery…

most of my Tesla's given the charging curve are 40-50 min stops to 80-90%
my Taycan is 20-30 min given the charging curve to 80-90% if the charger is 150 kW or faster and functional

the actual wall clock/stop-watch difference between charging at 150 kW vs. 270 kW is about 6-8 minutes from a practical real world scenario - and once you're less than 30 minutes (which 150 kW charger _IS_ less than 30 min) it basically doesn't matter...

basically I don't care about charging speed until we're talking a difference of 22 minutes vs. 11 minutes or faster - and nothing is currently fast enough to provide 80 kWh in 11 minutes in production available to the public - so we're all in the 20-30 min stop level of charging if you're starting at 15% or less…

daveo4porsche

for EVgo charger you should not need an adatper
for use of Tesla (non-Supercharger) EV chargers you'll need a TeslaTap

http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?r...&product_id=50

you can get the normal tap or the mini - doesn't matter - get at least a 60 amp version - the stock/standard Taycan onboard charger is an 11 kW charger - that's a 60 amp breaker (48 amp charge rate in north america)

a TeslaTap allows _ANY_ non-Tesla EV (like the Taycan or Cayenne Hybrid, Panamera eHybrid, BMW X5 hybrid, etc…) access to non-Supercharger Tesla chargers at hotels, homes, parking garages, businesses.

for the Taycan since it can charge at 48 amps (60 amp breaker) you need a 60 amp TeslaTap (or more 80 amp) to safely charge at Tesla chargers - and I have found a lot of 50/60/70/80 amp Tesla Chargers at some businesses…

AGAIN FOR CLARITY - this adapter will _NOT_ let your Taycan (or any other CCS based EV) access the Superchargers - that type of adapter or process is yet to be announced by Tesla for north america - this is NOT for supercharger access.

Redhot2474

dang, you’re like an encyclopedia - my wife has an adapter I bought for her Range Rover sport hybrid that has a 30 mile battery - it’s a j1772 - is this the same or is the “Tesla tap” different? I notice it’s also a j1772

daveo4porsche

I have no idea - but it will probably work - you can always try it - and if it doesn't then buy a TeslaTap like I linked - there are such adapters that are not TeslaTaps - but I have no personal experience with those…

I have a 60 amp TeslaTap "pigtail" for my Taycan
I have a 40 amp TeslaTap "mini" for my Cayenne eHybrid (it has max charge rate of 30 amps)

but yeah if you have a working adapter you can use J-1772 chargers (EVGo Charge Point, Porasche PMC+/PMCC etc…) - and with the TeslaTap your J-1772 vehicle (EV's and hybrids in North America) can use Tesla non-Superchargers…

it's very likely your RangeRover one will work for the Taycan - but with out knowing specifics I can't say for sure.

Redhot2474

I found the adapter - is this ok??

,

[Only for J1772 EVs] Lectron - Tesla to J1772 Adapter, Max 40 Amp & 250V - Compatible with Tesla High Powered Connector, Destination Charger, and Mobile Connector Only (White)

daveo4porsche

I am familiar with the Lectron adapter.

it would be safer to have a 60 amp version - since the Taycan's standard/stock L2 charger hardware can do 60 amps (48 amps) - if you plug into a 60 amp Tesla Destination charger the Taycan will charge at 48 amps - and that might overheat/melt a 40 amp adapter.

the adapter you have is compatible and functional w/Taycan (and any other J-1772 EV) but is underspec for the Taycan's 60 amp/48 amp 11 kW charger - the adapter you have is suitable for hybrids that are limited to 7.68 kW or less maximum charging rate.

Redhot2474

Got it! The 60amp is also ok with performance battery?

daveo4porsche

yes battery size does not matter -charge rate matters

stock or standard taycan 11kw charge rate - 60/48 amps
optional 19.2 kw charge rate 100/80 amps

Redhot2474

With this 60amp adapter , what’s the charging hourly capacity ? Around 30 miles back to battery or so?

daveo4porsche

the adapter can handle 60 amps (48 amps) - it does not provide 60 amps - the rate of charge is always dictated by the charger you are using for any given charge session - if you plug into a 12 amp charger the charge rate is slower than if you plug into a 60/48 amp charger…

the adapter will work with _ANY_ Tesla Charger (except superchargers) - the rate of Charge for a Tesla charger can vary from 8 to 80 amps (10 amp breaker to 100 amp breaker) - the "60 amp" rating on the adapter indicates the maximum electrical current load it can safely handle (without melting) - it does not and can not "force" your vehicle to charge at 60 amps if you are plugged into a 20 amp Tesla charger.

the Taycan's standard/stock charger inside the vehicle is an 11 kW charger - that translates into a 48 amp charge rate, which due to US building codes requires a 60 amp breaker - therefore your taycan will potentially charge at ANY rate between 8 to 48 amps depending on what chargers you encounter and plug into - we want to make sure your Tesla Adapter can handle the maximum rate your Taycan can handle - so we match the adapter to your Taycan's abilities - 60 amps - if you puchase the 19.2 kW upgrade for $1680 from Porsche you'd have to get the 80 amp TeslaTap since your Taycan can handle 19.2 kW you need an 80 amp adapter - some Tesla chargers can provide 19.2 kW (Seascape Resorts in Aptos, CA has 4 such Tesla chargers) - if you plugged in a 19.2 kW Taycan into Seascape's 19.2 kW Tesla Wall chargers with a 40/50/60 amp Tesla tap therd is a good chance the TeslaTap would melt/short/catch-fire - this is bad and generally to be avoided - so if you own a 19.2 kW Taycan - you should own an 80 amp TeslaTap to avoid the whole melting/fire thing…

if for example you're using the chargers at my local mall (Valley Fair in San Jose) - you'll get a 6 kW charge rate @ 208 volts * 30 amps - that would take over 14 hours to fully charge the Taycan if it was close to empty.

the "bigger" amp adapter simply means if you encounter a 60/48 amp charger "in the wild" that the electrical componets in the adapter cable won't melt under the 60/48 amp load.

if you're plugged into a 30 amp charger - your rate of charge will be appropriate for 30 amps.

the Taycan can handle 11 kW (11,000 watts) (standard/stock/factory) - the taycan is anywhere from a 2.3 ml/kWh to 3.2 mi/kWh vehicle so thtat is a range of 22 to 32 miles of range per-hour of charge with a 60/48 amp charger. Most chargers you'll encounter are 9.6 kW or lower…

the range shown on your Tesla is reflective of it's better effciencies vs. Taycan - so the Taycan on teh same charger as the Tesla willl be slightly less range per-hour of charge.

I don't focus on "miles per hour of charge" because it's all a lie - the immutible value is the amount of power/energy - which is volts * amps - 240 volts * 48 amps (60 amp breaker) is 11,000 watts or 11 kW - 240 volts * 40 amps (50 amp breaker) is 9,600 watts or 9.6 kW, 240 volts * 32 amps (40 amp breaker) is 7,680 watts or 7.68 kW… this form of charge measurement is universal across all EV's but range for a Botl is different than Taycan is different than a Model 3 is different than a Ford F150 EV

the Taycan can change upto 48 amps or 11 kW (60 amp breaker) range doesn't matter - most chargers are 40 amps or less (9.6 kW) - range depends on how it's driven, it's core efficiencies, and weather and is a very very poor measurement for charging.

daveo4porsche

BTW the way these Adapters (be them TeslaTap or Lectron or others) are NOT smart, are NOT clever, and they have minimal circuitry inside them - they do NOT adjust anything - they simply provide a transformation from one shape conntector (the Tesla charging plug) to another shape connector J-1772 and map the 5 wires/conductors from the Tesla Chargers to a J-1772 connector (2 high voltage lines, two low voltage communcation "pins", and 1 electrical ground)

this lays bare the truth of the matter - Tesla Chargers _ARE_ J-1772 charger with the wrong shape plug - but electrically they are nearly identical to any other J-1772 EV charger and once you get the wriing "right" they "just work" with most any J-1772 based EV…

also nothing prevents you from using a 30/40 amp Lectron Tesla adapter with an 80 amp Tayan or Rivian -plug it in - it will work - it will charge at 80 amps - the adapter is _NOT_ active - if you plug your 80 amp Rivian (19,200 watts) into a 80 amp Tesla Wall Charger (Seascape Resorts, Aptos, CA) the 32 amp Lectron tesla adapter will happily "pass" the 19.2 kW worth of power through it's internal wiring (rated for 7.2 kW of power) - and one of two things will happen:

1. it will either get really really hot and almost melt - but you'll get away with it - just barely
2. it will actually melt and you'll be lucky not to start a fire when the internal wires get too hot melting the insulation and potentially causing a electrical short which may lead to an actual fire…

now any wire can pass any amount of current through it for a brief period of time - so if you're only charging for like 7 minutes the 32 amp adapter might do just fine with 80 amps of power - it doesn't have long enough to overheat, but if you're charging for 4 hours @ 80 amps on a 32 amp adapter - well then it's most likely going melt - well it will probably melt long before 4 hours…but you get my point - if you run a 32 amp adatper at 80 amps for long enough - something is going to fail - and you'll be lukcy if it does not start a fire…

these adapters DO NOTHING - they do not LIMIT the charge rate - they do NOT adjust the charge rate - they do not 'change' the power flow or the communication between the vehicle and the charger - their AMP rating is simply a measurement of how robust their electrical wiring is and if it can handle the higher loads of larger current loads and not melt for that type of usage…

it's like the speed rating on your tires - tires rated for 180 mph do not make your vehicle go 180 mph - it simply means the tire can handle the loads of 180 mph driving - and 120 mph rated tires will not suddenly fail at 121 mph, but the longer you push it the more likely they are to fail at higher speeds…

using a 40 amp TeslaTap with an 80 amp TeslaWall Charger and 80 EV will still charge at 80 amps - but you may/will discover a melted pool of plastic when the charging sessions stops pre-maturely beause the adapter overheated from the 80 amp current load…

don't over think this stuff - it's not magic…the amp rating on these adatper IS NOT how fast your EV will charge - it's how much the adapter can handle without melting…

Taycan's come in two flavors

60 amp flavor (stock/standard)
80 amp flavor (19.2 kW options for $1,680)

don't try and use a 30 amp TeslaTap or Lectron adapter with either Taycan - it's not robust enough to handle the Taycan _IF_ you're plugged into an EV charger that is more than 30 amps…it may melt and/or cause a fire.

Your panamera eHybrid, Cayenne eHybrid and 918 Spyder are all only 30 amp charging vehicles - so a 30 amp TeslaTap/Lectron will never overheat wtih these vehicles because they will never pull more than 30 amps…

your 19.2 kW Taycan _WILL_ pull 80 amps when plugged in a Seascape resort no matter what amp rating the adapter your puchased is rated for - maybe don't pull 80 amps of power across an adapter only rated for 30 amps - buy the more robust 80 amp adapter so that it doesn't melt while trying to charge your $162,000 EV - spend the extra $62 on the more robust adapter with the beefier wire that won't fail during a 7 hour charging session pumping a small countries worth of power into your EV's battery while eating dinner by the coast…but that's just my opinion.

DerekS

I went for the TeslaTap Mini 60 amp model:

http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?r...product_id=146

Small, clean. Works well.

whiz944

Just to be pedantic, V3 Superchargers are 250 kW max, not 200. Perhaps you are thinking of the restrictions in the older, pre-2021, Model S/X which limited rates to 200 kW or less? I've hit 250 kW charging my Model 3 many times. In fact, I'm getting so that I avoid the old V2 Superchargers whenever possible, as V3 also don't share stall pairs like V2 Superchargers do. (Seems like when using V2, I often have to suggest to the person who pulls up next to me that if they move one stall over, they'd get 2x faster charging. Most are appreciative. Some look at me like I'm an anti-social d*ck... )

If you restrict your Taycan DCFC usage to EA, both their 150 and 350 kW charging stations can operate at 800 V. Other charging networks, not so much. And yeah - the 800 lb gorilla in the room is what Elon will do with opening the Supercharger network - which is built to support 400-ish volt battery packs. In Europe, all the V2 Supercharger dispensers were replaced with dual cable versions, and V3 are CCS2 only. It isn't so clear in North America what they will do. Few details have leaked out. (I have my opinions on what they will do, but it probably isn't worth elaborating here.)

Why is this important? Let's take Harris Ranch here in California as an example. It is a key charging location between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. In fact it was an I-5 charging stop for the original Tesla Roadster prior to the Superchargers, and was one of the "Day 1" Supercharger sites for the Model S. EA has an installation there today with four 150 kW chargers and two 350 kW chargers. Looking at the plugshare reviews, it seems that 2-4 of them are often broken... Just across the parking lot there are 18 Supercharger stalls, with an additional 80 (!) stalls under construction. Same with Kettleman just south of Harris. There are 95 stalls across the two Kettleman sites, and no CCS nearby that is not "under repair". If/when there is CCS compatibility, it is obvious which chargers one would want to use on a busy holiday weekend - regardless of cost.

So if I were buying a Taycan, I would absolutely buy the 150 kW 400V option. But I do road trips, and configure my cars for them. "Ugly" aero wheels and all. I could care less about fake sport sound and seat belt color options. Others obviously have their own priorities.

Whoopsy

Dave, something else missing. Just mentioning the kW number doesn't fully describe the chargers.

The Porsche 150kW charger option, it means the car can take in 375A @400V. There are still some 200kW fast chargers in the wild that doesn't do 800V, not just Tesla chargers. They are capped at 400V and at up to 500A. And if someone doesn't check the 150kW option, the car is stuck at charging at 400V 125A, aka 50kW. A painful exercise. This isn't just for using Tesla Superchargers.