aCayenneFan

The difference is that it is possible to purchase a CPO warranty that covers the PDK. Can't do that yet for the battery.

Wiley Hodges

BTW, there's a data point in the video that Porsche Centre Calgary posted on the 6th. I just got around to watching all of it today, and the host mentions that he looked up the parts pricing for the Taycan pack, and it's $50K CAD (which is a little over $37K USD). Apparently there's a 'refurbishment' option for $30K CAD. So, not an inexpensive proposition. They also mentioned that (as with some other cars on the market) the pack is made up of modules that are individually replaceable. Probably doesn't help if your entire pack has too many cycles to hold its capacity, but good for repairs.

Needsdecaf

What would be the cost to replace a 9A1 engine in a 991 series 911? I don't see too many people asking that question before buying a 991....

aCayenneFan

See post #16 above.

acoste

Not on a Porsche forum and usually not among new car buyers.
But in theory; I often wondered what's going to happen to the ICE cars built beyond 2010. The average age of the cars is around 12 years in the US. That means there are plenty of cars that reach 18-20 years. Now the newer cars with the strict emission regulations have very complex engines and after 150k mi repair costs shoot up not worth fixing the cars, add the mechanics who just keep replacing parts due to the lack of understanding the system. But then what will the not so wealthy drive?

Given the average age of cars which shows many can't afford a new car I think it's ok to put a brand new aftermarket battery in a 10 years old car and use it for another 10 years.

aCayenneFan

Ultimately, it is up to the car's owner to decide what is in their best interest. Cost vs. perceived benefit.

Also, battery density in the future is going to increase. The new battery may have a longer range between charges.

Needsdecaf

Read that. Most people don't. Why? Because it's simply not an issue.

There is a lot of hand wringing over battery life and it dying and having to replace it. It's the second most frequent asked question about my Tesla, after "what's the range". Not how does it drive, or anything like that. It's "when will you have to replace the battery and how much will it cost". Why? Because people don't know and are used to batteries in their cell phones and laptops dying and getting memory and having to be replaced. They are conditioned to think rechargeable battery = 3 year replacment. That's simply not the case for a BEV.

daveo4porsche

the reason other LiON batteries "die" is because they are not thermally managed and always charged to 100% and then most laptop/cellphone chargers sit there and continue to charge the batteries at 100…I know I've spoken with mulitple battery engineers with years of experience - consumer grade batteries with no charge or thermal management do fail and fail by design

1. these batteries are much cheaper to replace (less than $50 in some cases)
2. longevity of the devices is 48 months or much less - if it does fail see #1
3. thermal management would be costly in: $$$, volume, weight, complexity - so it's not done
4. they are charged to 100% all the time, and there is very little top/bottom buffer
5. they continue to charge when they are 100% because of product perception management - no one wants to wake up in the morning and see their cell phone at 98% because it's conditioning the battery
6. given cost and complexity it's just not worth managing the issues

Automotive batteries are not managed like laptop/cell phone batteries and therefore will and do last longer (all except for Nissan leaf's) - if your cell phone and laptop LiON battery were managed like Tesla/Chevy/Porsche manage their batteries you'd never have to replace the battery - but it would be 8x more cost, and 4 times bigger/heavier, and you'd still get a new one everyone 2-3 years…

well managed EV batteries have demonstrated that longevity is a minority issue like any other major drive train component - in that if there are issues it's after the usefuil life of hte car, and cost will be high vs. a new one, but I believe a solid state battery has a far lower MTBF than _ANY_ major drive train mechanical component for similar duration and milage.

AlexCeres

this is a little hyperbolic, and not really accurate for state of the art today, as opposed to say 5 years ago, but because of 1,2 and 6 in particular the longevity mechanisms are a lot more constrained than a car. There isn’t an economic case to be made for a top buffer.

gnop1950

For Phones, at least iPhones with iOS 13 or better, there is an option that you can turn on to automatically stop charging at 80% then finish up charging before you pick it up in the morning. It learns your charging habits and is location-based so won't work when traveling. So even phones are starting to make advances to maximize battery life. Following the 20%-85% general rule for EV charging, except when traveling long distances should keep the battery in excellent condition for at least the 8 year/100k mile battery warranty. At that point maybe they'll have an even better replacement, or I'll be looking for a new car anyway.

flygdchman

Why are you mentioning solid state batteries in this discussion as though the Taycan battery is solid state?

jackbenner

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post so be gentle. I am the owner of a 2022 Taycan 4S for all of ten days but formerly owed a 2014 BMW i3 REX for over 3 years during which over 40,000 miles was added to it. The car came to us in 2017 as a CPO that was a lease return with 14k on it. It was a daily driver for my wife with an 80 mile round trip commute via I-75 5 days a week. We live in Naples where it gets very hot (>90 degrees) from June thru October. The car was garaged every night and plugged into our Level 2 charger. Our garage is very hot in the summer and you could regularly hear the ac unit in the car cooling the batteries during charging. My wife used the little 650 cc REX engine everyday to maintain the state of charge as part of her journey. The car was a first generation electric from BMW and had some of interesting software issues. In the spring of 2020 I noticed the guessometer of mileage on battery was routinely showing much lower numbers. Instead of 80+ miles of range the numbers were now in the low 60s. When I took it in for service (brake fluid and engine oil) I asked our service advisor to look into that. He called me back the next day to say that all the modules in the car were testing below 80% of design. BMW had warranted and spec'd the car batteries to remain above 80% for 8 years. After several days and looking at the numbers BMW authorized a replacement of all the batteries. At the time the SA told me this was over $20k if done out of warranty. That was more than the car was worth at the time. It took about 10 days to get the replacement modules and complete the work. I certainly believe all the hard treatment we gave the little beast (100% to less than 10% battery) day after day and in very hot conditions contributed to the rapid decline of the LiON batteries. Heat is no friend to LiON batteries. Of course as soon as the batteries were in my wife decided a convertible was in her future. Somebody got a good deal when they bought that i3. I plan to air condition my garage before next summer to protect my new baby.

daveo4porsche

my mention of "Solid State Battery" was overly broad and meant to be presented more in the context/genre of "Solid State Electronics" which have few if any moving parts and either work or they do not work - I know the Taycan does not have the proposed and researched forth coming "solid" batteries that are not yet to market…

An EV drive train + battery has way fewer moving parts and tends to be binary in it's operation - in that it's either works or it completely fails - and has reliability in line with many existing electrical components and their MTBF being very high in duration and duty cycles.

You can expect the Taycan's battery to outlast most people's ownership of the vehicle and if it does fail the warranty being 8 years or 100,000 miles places in the realm of any major drive train component life span (engines and transmissions)

the Taycan does not have a Solid State Battery -but does have the characteristics of any Solid State system with high reliability and life span and should easily outlast virtually any mechanical system which as 500-800 wearable parts…

Spyerx

I'll bet a replacement is less than an engine rebuild on my 997RS. In fact I'm about SURE of that!

daveo4porsche

also hopeful any replacement would be a "better" battery - kinda upgrade the whole car - maybe more capacity or improved chemistries - batteries are so modular - it could be a really awesome "opportunity" to refresh one's battery and kinda get a new car in the process…