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i will also predict and OTA update where porsche relaxes the buffer after they have more real world data on the battery - making the Taycan a 240’ish mile car easy - i expect that with in 18-24 months - and they will tweak software and re-certify w/EPA for the 2021 model year and produce a better number - there will be no actual physical change - just software...we will see
i will also predict and OTA update where porsche relaxes the buffer after they have more real world data on the battery - making the Taycan a 240’ish mile car easy
According to that article, it is already easily getting 248 miles, including cold weather driving through heavy rain and 70 mph trips with occasional bursts at 100mph, so your prediction has already come true without even relaxing the buffer.
wow the collective sigh of relief being heard on this forum that range sucks less is interesting given the overwhelming arguments on this forum that it just didn’t matter - at least get your stories straight - it either matters or it doesn’t and 83% of EPA range from Tesla is still better than 115% of range from Porsche - kudos that we are getting better numbers and gradual confirmation that EPA is worse case - but the Taycan is only slightly less sucky than we thought it was and still no where near Tesla EPA or real world numbers
the article documents that the Taycan can be only slightly less efficient than my real world observed data for my Model X which has worse aero and weighs more...
Im relieved that the Taycan’s range sucks less than we thought - but it still should be much better - and we are still lacking with regards to actual data as to why the EPA number is so bad
wow the collective sigh of relief being heard on this forum that range sucks less is interesting given the overwhelming arguments on this forum that it just didn’t matter - at least get your stories straight - it either matters or it doesn’t
There is no reason to get any story straight when one is pointing out to the Tesla shills and the concern trolls that the EPA numbers have been the one outlier compared to every review. One can do that and also believe that the range doesn't matter - 200 or 248 miles is more than enough for what they need in an EV.
I managed to do a few drive scenarios over the last 2 days with the Taycan Turbo S to log as much mileage as I can and detail the trips. The car is equipped with the Mission E wheels in 21 inch size on all season tires. After driving for 2 days I made my way to the Novato Electrify America charging station to plug in and see how quickly the car would charge back up after my trips.
The car showed 232 miles of range on a 97% charge when I took off after some spirited demo drives earlier in the day:
Trip 1: The weather on trip 1 was terrible, torrential downpour, 50 degrees, wipers on med- high most of the trip, lights on, defroster occasionally on but no heater, 80's station on radio and a mix of freeway, back road driving from Mill Valley to Healdsburg and back to San Anselmo. I drove the car in NORMAL mode, recuperation on occasionally to slow down on the freeway and on the back roads and drove a total of 118.2 miles at an average speed of 55 mph using 35.8 KWH /100 miles used and the car showed 134 miles left of range when I parked the car.
Trip 2: The next morning I set out on a back road first going from San Anselmo over to Lucas valley road, past Skywalker Ranch and up to Petaluma with 134 miles of range showing when I left. The temp was 45 degrees and no rain this time, 80's again on the Burmester stereo, driving in Normal mode, recuperation set to on most of the time unless going up hill. I drove 33.8 miles at an average speed of 37 mph and used 29.2 KWH / 100 miles on that trip and arrived with 104 miles of range remaining on the car.
Trip 3: This was a very high speed run in Sport Plus mode, trying to maintain as high a speed as I could and use the throttle a few times to really jump on the gas. Also using the recuperation to slow the car a few times. 55 degrees and sunny weather with only Freeway driving, 80's again on Burmester. This definitely sucked down the juice more than the other drives. My results were 16.5 miles driven at a 75 mph average and 41.1 KWh/ 100 miles and the car showed only 75 miles of range left after this blast.
Trip 4: This was a mix of driving on the freeway mostly with some back roads in Normal mode, 80's on Burmester, some recuperation used for slowing down, 55 degrees and sunny and heading back from Santa Rosa to Novato to plug in at the Electrify America station. My results were 39.4 miles driven at an average of 55 mph with 33.6 KWH/ 100 miles used and the car showing 34 miles left of range. When the car dropped below 54 miles range I did get a warning on the car to find a charging station:
So to recap I drove a total of 207.7 miles over 2 days and the car had 34 miles left of range still showing on it when I plugged it in. So the 232 miles that the car registered when I set out at 97% of charge seems pretty close to the number. I think what was interesting is that the power consumption at light throttle at 70mph was very similar to the same thing at 50 mph.Only hitting 90 mph + did the car start drawing more current consistently and only 4-6 KWH more than at 50 mph. Planting the throttle however saw that number spike to 110 KWH + instantly and take a while to recover downward.
Now to the Electrify America charging station experience. I downloaded the app and added my credit card to it and then found the 350 KWH charging station in Novato.
Not surprisingly I was the only car plugged into the station and I proceeded to charge the car using the APP to unlock the charger and then see what it would do on this Taycan. I decided to plug in for 20 minutes and see what the end result would be as that is roughly what the speed we are claiming is based off for recharging. I started charging on the 350 KWH charger and then the charger cut off at 18% for some reason. Now I was looking through the menus on the display when this occurred and I cannot say for certain that I did not hit a wrong button to stop the charging. So round 2 starting at a 18% and again 20 minutes on the clock. At first I saw a spike to 196 KWH charging rate and then it settled down to only 165 -167 KWH charge. I am not sure if this is because the car was above a 10% charge, this is a very early production car, this station has some issues, or something else as I can only report what I saw at this one station. More testing on that is required to see what the actual results are once production cars are in folks hands and more than one station is used.
Once the car got to 56 % charged I noticed the charging rate dropped all the way down to around 100 KWH:
After 20 minutes of charging the car I recorded the following:
I hope this information is helpful for the forum and it sheds a little light on what the car is actually capable of and not conjecture. Again there are lots of factors involved in what you will get for range but this is what I did over these 2 days with a Taycan Turbo S. Thanks for reading.
if temps were below 70 degrees F - low 60’s high 50’s the lower charge rate numbers would be expected - my Model 3 was topping out at 92 kw this past thursday @ 150 kw supercharger when outside temps were mid 40’s - 150 kw charge rate is very very respectable with cooler temps and reflects well on Taycan
temperature is a factor in consumption and charge rate and should be noted in any future reports!
the data is great and much appreciated!
update: noted 55 degrees at one point in your review - 150 kw charge rate at mid 50’s temps could be expected for the taycan and is still excellent! if temps were below 60’s during charging your charging results are excellent and probably with in expected tolerances given temps
if temps were below 70 degrees F - low 60’s high 50’s the lower charge rate numbers would be expected - my Model 3 was topping out at 92 kw this past thursday @ 150 kw supercharger when outside temps were mid 40’s - 150 kw charge rate is very very respectable with cooler temps and reflects well on Taycan
temperature is a factor in consumption and charge rate and should be noted in any future reports!
the data is great and much appreciated!
update: noted 55 degrees at one point in your review - 150 kw charge rate at mid 50’s temps could be expected for the taycan and is still excellent! if temps were below 60’s during charging your charging results are excellent and probably with in expected tolerances given temps
Does anyone know if the Taycan has the ability to preheat the battery on the way to a fast charger?
Does anyone know if the Taycan has the ability to preheat the battery on the way to a fast charger?
Yes it will.
With Thermal Pre-Conditioning and the Charging Planner activated, the battery will be preheated or cooled to the optimum temperature en route to the charging station
So round 2 starting at a 18% and again 20 minutes on the clock. At first I saw a spike to 196 KWH charging rate and then it settled down to only 165 -167 KWH charge. I am not sure if this is because the car was above a 10% charge, this is a very early production car, this station has some issues, or something else as I can only report what I saw at this one station. More testing on that is required to see what the actual results are once production cars are in folks hands and more than one station is used.
I'm sensing some "apology" in this space, and a concern that this isn't as good as it should be - on the contrary I believe these results are excellent and would make any Tesla fan boy jealous. This data tells me what we all expected - the Taycan charging is industry leading.
To understand this we need some perspective:
Temperatures: below 60 degrees (55 was reported in your report) - that's "cold" from a LiON battery perspective.
Comparing this charge rate to the industry benchmark (Tesla superchargers) - there are 3 maximum charge rates in the Tesla world:
now these are maximum charge rates and only in "ideal" circumstances - we know the Tesla taper is pretty steep and you'll only get these maximum charge rates at ideal temperatures and low SOC-% on the battery - V2 are the majority superchargers in the wild, and therefore lets focus on the 120 kW maximum rate…
you only get this rate at like below 30% battery - after it starts to taper - thursday evening @ Vacaville supercharger SOC below 20% I was only able to get 89 kW to start on a 120 kW supercharger @ 45 degrees-F in my Model 3 - no where near the maximum rate, proably all due to temperature.
@Sonnen Porsche 's data is showing a sustained 165 kW charge rate (which is 45 kW MORE than Tesla's maximum V2 rate) with battery state above 10% and on a "cold" day…this is a superior charging result and reflects on just how far ahead Porsche is in this space with regards to charging ability with their battery technology. rather than sheepish apologies
Spoiler
I am not sure if this is because the car was above a 10% charge, this is a very early production car, this station has some issues, or something else as I can only report what I saw at this one station
this is a charging result on a brisk winter day that would make any reasonable Tesla fan boy very jealous! And we know the Taycan can sustain the higher charge rates much much deep in to the battery's SOC than Tesla
this is an excellent result! No apologies necessary - tell your Tesla fan boy's to put that in to their charge port and smoke it! Even at a V3 supercharger on a sub 60 degree day there is _NO_ way a Model 3 (S and X are limited to 120 or less even at V3) would do 165 kW and even it if did - it wouldn't last long due to the much more aggressive taper in the supercharger curves.
in fact the charge rate exactly matchs porsche published "heat map" for SOC vs. Temperature for 60 degree or less weather - 60f is about 15C - please see charge below…
and the charge taper in nearly ideal condition see - below the Taycan maintain a near maximum charge rate much deeper into the SOC %'age than the Model 3 which tapers very very aggressively
the Taycan charging at 165 kW is a spectacular result and would/should be the envy of nearly any Tesla fan boy! Don't apologize - this is a clear win for the Taycan.
I know you get some feedback on the forums cause you're a dealer and some will take your results with a grain of salt cause ya'know "sales" - and other have cautioned you about claims because you are lacking data - however in this case you have demonstrated, documented, and have personal experience about just how much better the Taycan is at charging vs. Tesla. It's a clear and unambiguous victory and a remarkable result in real world conditions. As a sales representative this is brag worthy and shoudl make any Taycan customer proud and please to know they have the best charging EV in the industry right now and your results prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Now they are going to need it because of the Taycan's crappy range - no I kid- we kid because we love!!!
this result makes me as a taycan customer (ordered w/deposit) feel much better, and I'm looking forward to having the best charging EV currently available, really stupendous result vs. the Model 3 at this time - and there is no way a Model 3 sitting next you on that same day at a V3 supercharger would've charged nearly as fast - Taycan wins hands down.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; Jan 27, 2020 at 01:03 PM.
@Sonnen Porsche a small update and a mistake that I made in my early years in EV land…
t first I saw a spike to 196 KWH charging rate and then it settled down to only 165 -167 KWH charge.
KWH refers to capacity - an amount of power - amount of water in the tub
KW refers to a "rate" of power being delivered - flow rate - how fast will you fill the tub?
you saw a 196 kW charge rate, and then it settled down to 165-167 kW rate…because of the tapering you can not state this is a kWh rate because the rate will vary over time.
if you maintain 165 kWcharge rate for 1 hour - you will have delivered 165 kWH into the bath tub if you achieve a 165 kW charge rate for 30 minutes (1/2 hour) you will deliver 82.5 kWh into the battery.
I submit this "correction" with all humility because I used to make the same mistakes being new to the EV world - and this is a topic I spend a bit of time on in my very well recieved "Being EV" talk that I give to car clubs to help former petrol heads transition into the brave new world that is EV's.
I am not sure I understand this. Are you saying that it adds 12 miles compared to the 21s on the S (I am guessing it has 21s), and so you think that the 19s on the 4s would add another 20?
Or are you saying something else?
According to Porsche's UK web site which has a cool range calculator the 20 inch wheels add 12 more miles of range over the 21 inch Mission E wheels of our shop car. For the clients that need to maximize the range of the car they should spec the smaller wheels if they are ok with the designs.
i will also predict and OTA update where porsche relaxes the buffer after they have more real world data on the battery - making the Taycan a 240’ish mile car easy - i expect that with in 18-24 months - and they will tweak software and re-certify w/EPA for the 2021 model year and produce a better number - there will be no actual physical change - just software...we will see
The 12% buffer on the Taycan battery is there to unlock down the road so that the car is a viable product for 10 years. The expectation is that the battery pack will loose approx 7-10% of its range after a certain time frame and then Porsche can unlock that percentage to keep the range the same as when the car was new. The range I showed is from a 83 KWH usable battery and the technology is already 3 years old in this car as Porsche tests and test and tests. 100 prototypes driving a million miles each in all types of conditions. I am sure Taycan 2.0 will see better battery technology and efficiency and I hope the ability to paddle shift the regen to maximize range.
Great watch! The Kia was super impressive in that test and the Tesla seemed to underperform a tiny bit based on its rated numbers but still went the longest. When we get a 4S which has 560hp, the bigger battery pack and some aero wheels I will see if we can replicate that exact test and see what it does.
if temps were below 70 degrees F - low 60’s high 50’s the low
er charge rate numbers would be expected - my Model 3 was topping out at 92 kw this past thursday @ 150 kw supercharger when outside temps were mid 40’s - 150 kw charge rate is very very respectable with cooler temps and reflects well on Taycan
temperature is a factor in consumption and charge rate and should be noted in any future reports!
the data is great and much appreciated!
update: noted 55 degrees at one point in your review - 150 kw charge rate at mid 50’s temps could be expected for the taycan and is still excellent! if temps were below 60’s during charging your charging results are excellent and probably with in expected tolerances given temps
I did not take into account the temperature was below 60 degrees and I also did not pre-heat the battery pack either which could have played a part in the lower numbers that I witnessed.
