I bought an E-tron and don't worry about the Taycan range
01-26-2020, 10:23 PM
#61
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nice pics!
01-27-2020, 08:53 PM
#62
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My local dealer got their first Taycan Turbo in and I was very anxious to see it (having bought an E-Tron 6 weeks ago). They unlocked it and let me play inside.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
01-27-2020, 09:08 PM
#63
My local dealer got their first Taycan Turbo in and I was very anxious to see it (having bought an E-Tron 6 weeks ago). They unlocked it and let me play inside.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
01-27-2020, 09:58 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
My local dealer got their first Taycan Turbo in and I was very anxious to see it (having bought an E-Tron 6 weeks ago). They unlocked it and let me play inside.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
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AlexCeres (01-27-2020)
01-27-2020, 11:09 PM
#65
My local dealer got their first Taycan Turbo in and I was very anxious to see it (having bought an E-Tron 6 weeks ago). They unlocked it and let me play inside.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
First off, it was much smaller than I anticipated, it's more a 4-door 911 and feels like one in the seat, too (I own a 2014 Carrera S).
I love the fact they kept the swoop up on the front fenders, visible from the driver's seat.
Dash layout is very similar to the E-Tron, no surprise there.
No Sunroof, just a large glass panel.
Rear seats are miserable, this is not an 4-adult comfortable seater like the E-Tron, its two adults, two kids in the back.
Rear trunk is very narrow, very little capacity. Not a hatchback so you won't be hauling much with it in the way of cargo.
But what really shocked me was the $ 164,000 sticker. I'm pretty die-hard Porsche, but I don't see it. E-tron is half that price and more plush, more comfortable.
Of course, I have not driven the Taycan Turbo its performance will blow the E-Tron into the weeds, for sure. They're not doing demo drives for customers yet, but I will return and try it when they do.
01-27-2020, 11:31 PM
#66
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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You are comparing a Mid Sized SUV to a performance sports car there is no comparison. You should be comparing it to a Q8 or Range Rover. I have drive both ( own a eTron ) and the Taycan is a lively fun car to drive with tons of power and it just eats up the road, great seat fantastic drive position and great feedback. The eTron dose none of that. Steering has a dead feeling, you really feel the weight and its just not a fun car to drive and that oK its an SUV its not fast or like a sports car to drive. As for the price again you are not comparing apple to apples the Turbo and Turbo s are indeed expensive as is the T4S but given the drive and handling and pure fun of driving IMO its worth it.
I would also hardly car the Taycan, at 5,100 lbs, “lively”.
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daveo4porsche (01-27-2020)
01-27-2020, 11:46 PM
#67
have you driven one ? It’s very lively, at least until you slam the brakes. More torque and hp than a tts with instant responsiveness. And no, it’s not a coupe.
01-28-2020, 01:22 AM
#68
Well I would. The one I drove was a rocket much more agile and sporty then my Tesla MS 90D. The Panamera is a 4 door sedan the Taycan is more a 4 door 911
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bgatxy1 (01-28-2020)
01-28-2020, 08:36 AM
#69
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by SFsoundguy
Well I would. The one I drove was a rocket much more agile and sporty then my Tesla MS 90D. The Panamera is a 4 door sedan the Taycan is more a 4 door 911
It terms of driving the E-Tron SUV and the Taycan are worlds apart. Luxury is much more similar and this is where I struggle. If the Audi E-Tron series can be close to the Taycan in terms of fit/finish and luxury then the only separation outside of brand and looks is drivability. But if the new E-Tron GT drives very similar to the Taycan and costs $30k cheaper similarly equipped, then the Taycan just isn't worth it in my opinion.
01-28-2020, 12:40 PM
#70
The Taycan Turbo I drove felt more like my Panamera than anywhere near a 911. The Taycan is a big heavy sports sedan. The Model S is more of a luxury sedan that is a bit sporty. Nothing like the Panamera or Taycan.
It terms of driving the E-Tron SUV and the Taycan are worlds apart. Luxury is much more similar and this is where I struggle. If the Audi E-Tron series can be close to the Taycan in terms of fit/finish and luxury then the only separation outside of brand and looks is drivability. But if the new E-Tron GT drives very similar to the Taycan and costs $30k cheaper similarly equipped, then the Taycan just isn't worth it in my opinion.
It terms of driving the E-Tron SUV and the Taycan are worlds apart. Luxury is much more similar and this is where I struggle. If the Audi E-Tron series can be close to the Taycan in terms of fit/finish and luxury then the only separation outside of brand and looks is drivability. But if the new E-Tron GT drives very similar to the Taycan and costs $30k cheaper similarly equipped, then the Taycan just isn't worth it in my opinion.
Last edited by SFsoundguy; 01-28-2020 at 02:33 PM.
01-28-2020, 01:30 PM
#71
RL Community Team
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02-02-2020, 11:29 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Now that I've been driving the E-tron for over a month I thought I would offer some pros and cons compared to our Tesla Model X. Why Tesla, because they are the bench mark in EV's today. Why the E-tron on a Porsche forum, because the E-tron has a lot of similarities to the Taycan (charging network, EPA range, battery size, etc).
This list is only in regards to EV issues. We all know that Audi and Porsche are in a different league in terms of fit and finish, ride quality, etc.
Pros
1. Excellent regen. Even when the battery is cold I get decent regen from the E-tron. Leaving our heated garage during the winter (50F approximately) the E-tron gets almost full regen immediately versus the Model X takes 10-15 miles of driving before full regen kicks in. I also like the paddles on the steering wheel for increasing regen. I still miss the one pedal driving, but this is a very nice alternative. Feels more natural if coming from an ICE. I'm surprised Porsche didn't add the paddles on the Taycan.
2. Fast level 3 charging. The E-tron can charge at a higher rate between 50-80%. On my recent trip this weekend it saw 150kw all the way to 80%. The Model X drops off quickly after 50%. I have found the 50-80% very useful for topping off on regional road trips that don't require multiple stops.
3. Efficiency relative to EPA rating. I find that the E-tron (just like the Taycan data) is underrated based on the EPA range. I am easily exceeding 206 miles of range (based on efficiency data) on a regular basis during winter driving conditions. This is not the case with our Model X. The Model X is still more efficient regardless, but it's harder to hit the EPA rated range.
4. Sound. The E-tron has a really nice EV sound to it. The Taycan is similar but even more aggressive. It seems silly, but it's really a nice touch.
5. Heating efficiency. This may be because of thermally insulated glass and better vehicle insulation, but the E-tron doesn't doesn't lose nearly as much range in cold weather compared to the Tesla. I'll be interested to see if this is similar during the summer when using the A/C.
Cons
1. Charging network. This is going to be the biggest issue for non-Tesla EV's. Electrify America is growing quickly, but there are still a lot of issues. This weekend the EA charger I used, I was trying to use my Audi credits for "free" charging. I was struggling to get cell service, and as a result I needed to pay for the charging because my Audi App couldn't connect. Even when paying with the EA card, it still takes about 5 minutes to get the charging process started. Compared to Tesla's superchargers which you simply walk up, plug-in, the charger recognizes your car, and then starts charging. On a 10-15 minute stop, adding five minutes just to wait for the charging to start is annoying.
2. Audi App. The iPhone app is terrible. Way better than my Nissan Leaf app, but not even close to the Tesla App. It doesn't always update which is an issue if charging on the road. It's confusing to set departure times and battery charging level. I've tried setting departure based charing multiple times with it failing to charge when I was ready to leave. They need to seriously improve the app. I haven't seen the Porsche App for the Taycan, but if it's anything like my Panamera EV app, it's going to need some major work.
3. Navigation. Normally built-in navigation isn't a concern for new cars. Most people probably use Apple Car play or some other navigation app. But with EV's having a good built-in navigation is important because it helps determine how much battery level you will have at your destination. It also can really help with road trip planning and include where to charge. Tesla's built-in navigation might be the best in the industry. It also tells you clearly how much battery you will have at your destination and where to super charge if needed. The Audi navigation struggles to find a good route if you aren't taking highways, it doesn't show many of the chargers available, and it doesn't clearly show how much battery level you will have at the finish. It would be almost useless on a really long road trip and it would be hard to predict if you have sufficient battery charge to reach a destination. I'm assuming the Taycan's nav system is similar to Audi's.
4. Throttle response. The E-tron is plenty quick, and almost as fast as the Model X. But Audi mapped the throttle response (even in dynamic and sport mode) to be so conservative it makes it feel slow. It you really hammer the throttle, and kick it past a detent in the motion so it enters "boost" mode, it's very fast. The Tesla is almost comically fast when set to the most aggressive setting. Not sure why Audi wasn't more aggressive. This is where the Taycan seems to be closer to the Tesla with aggressive throttle response.
5. General EV metrics and data. Most people probably don't care about driving data, but as an engineer I really miss the data in my E-tron. You get basic data like efficiency, but you don't get nearly as much as the Tesla.
This list is only in regards to EV issues. We all know that Audi and Porsche are in a different league in terms of fit and finish, ride quality, etc.
Pros
1. Excellent regen. Even when the battery is cold I get decent regen from the E-tron. Leaving our heated garage during the winter (50F approximately) the E-tron gets almost full regen immediately versus the Model X takes 10-15 miles of driving before full regen kicks in. I also like the paddles on the steering wheel for increasing regen. I still miss the one pedal driving, but this is a very nice alternative. Feels more natural if coming from an ICE. I'm surprised Porsche didn't add the paddles on the Taycan.
2. Fast level 3 charging. The E-tron can charge at a higher rate between 50-80%. On my recent trip this weekend it saw 150kw all the way to 80%. The Model X drops off quickly after 50%. I have found the 50-80% very useful for topping off on regional road trips that don't require multiple stops.
3. Efficiency relative to EPA rating. I find that the E-tron (just like the Taycan data) is underrated based on the EPA range. I am easily exceeding 206 miles of range (based on efficiency data) on a regular basis during winter driving conditions. This is not the case with our Model X. The Model X is still more efficient regardless, but it's harder to hit the EPA rated range.
4. Sound. The E-tron has a really nice EV sound to it. The Taycan is similar but even more aggressive. It seems silly, but it's really a nice touch.
5. Heating efficiency. This may be because of thermally insulated glass and better vehicle insulation, but the E-tron doesn't doesn't lose nearly as much range in cold weather compared to the Tesla. I'll be interested to see if this is similar during the summer when using the A/C.
Cons
1. Charging network. This is going to be the biggest issue for non-Tesla EV's. Electrify America is growing quickly, but there are still a lot of issues. This weekend the EA charger I used, I was trying to use my Audi credits for "free" charging. I was struggling to get cell service, and as a result I needed to pay for the charging because my Audi App couldn't connect. Even when paying with the EA card, it still takes about 5 minutes to get the charging process started. Compared to Tesla's superchargers which you simply walk up, plug-in, the charger recognizes your car, and then starts charging. On a 10-15 minute stop, adding five minutes just to wait for the charging to start is annoying.
2. Audi App. The iPhone app is terrible. Way better than my Nissan Leaf app, but not even close to the Tesla App. It doesn't always update which is an issue if charging on the road. It's confusing to set departure times and battery charging level. I've tried setting departure based charing multiple times with it failing to charge when I was ready to leave. They need to seriously improve the app. I haven't seen the Porsche App for the Taycan, but if it's anything like my Panamera EV app, it's going to need some major work.
3. Navigation. Normally built-in navigation isn't a concern for new cars. Most people probably use Apple Car play or some other navigation app. But with EV's having a good built-in navigation is important because it helps determine how much battery level you will have at your destination. It also can really help with road trip planning and include where to charge. Tesla's built-in navigation might be the best in the industry. It also tells you clearly how much battery you will have at your destination and where to super charge if needed. The Audi navigation struggles to find a good route if you aren't taking highways, it doesn't show many of the chargers available, and it doesn't clearly show how much battery level you will have at the finish. It would be almost useless on a really long road trip and it would be hard to predict if you have sufficient battery charge to reach a destination. I'm assuming the Taycan's nav system is similar to Audi's.
4. Throttle response. The E-tron is plenty quick, and almost as fast as the Model X. But Audi mapped the throttle response (even in dynamic and sport mode) to be so conservative it makes it feel slow. It you really hammer the throttle, and kick it past a detent in the motion so it enters "boost" mode, it's very fast. The Tesla is almost comically fast when set to the most aggressive setting. Not sure why Audi wasn't more aggressive. This is where the Taycan seems to be closer to the Tesla with aggressive throttle response.
5. General EV metrics and data. Most people probably don't care about driving data, but as an engineer I really miss the data in my E-tron. You get basic data like efficiency, but you don't get nearly as much as the Tesla.
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02-03-2020, 12:30 AM
#73
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Excellent assessment, Manitou202, as a fellow E-Tron owner I concur with all your points. I would add that I think the E-tron is a screaming bargain right now as well, with the dealers discounting $ 10K off MSRP and the $ 7,500 tax credit, it has an extremely attractive price point for a luxury electric car.
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02-03-2020, 08:38 AM
#74
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by drcollie
Excellent assessment, Manitou202, as a fellow E-Tron owner I concur with all your points. I would add that I think the E-tron is a screaming bargain right now as well, with the dealers discounting $ 10K off MSRP and the $ 7,500 tax credit, it has an extremely attractive price point for a luxury electric car.