Allocations and Deliveries?
10-24-2019, 04:33 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
OK, I told myself I "wouldn't bite" and kill this thread any further, but your question is legitimate ("What would I expect...") (BTW - I have no knowledge of any 918VIP program so this has nothing to do with that...) I'll try to make this as brief and concise as possible.
It would be "Nice" (lets leave it at that) if a corporate program would actually offer something (anything) in exchange for participation (which DOES require payment to one of its entities). A better approach for this type of a program (IMHO) could have provided some corporate "adjustment" to allocation distribution (to dealers) proportionate to the number of deposit holders each dealership is representing. (Porsche goes out of its way to avoid any commitment to do any of this). I have been told that Taycan allocations will be issued to dealerships based upon traditional metrics. (Sales volume, etc and NOT with any consideration to the number of deposit holders at each dealer)
- Consider a smaller volume dealer who might be holding (just for arguments sake) 10 deposits. Maybe they would only traditionally get 5 allocations this year for this "class" of vehicle.
- Consider a nearby larger volume dealer who might only be holding 5 deposits. Maybe they would traditionally get 10 allocations this year.
The deposit holders at the smaller company are effectively going to be under-served while those at the larger dealer would be over-served. (Yes, I expect Porsche dealers - like BMW dealers - can trade allocations among themselves between various models of cars. However, some might not be so willing to do this, and there is no reason why this even has to be part of the equation in well managed corporate program.)
Porsche COULD do a couple of things here:
1. They could adjust the actual number of INITIAL allocations to more proportionally match the deposits on hand at each dealer (rather than more traditionally established metrics). IOW: Adjust the ratio of initial allocations pushed out to dealers to reflect the amount of deposits they hold (recognizing, of course, that not all deposit holders may pull the trigger). Proportional initial allocation to dealers based on their number of deposit holders and then resuming to established/traditional/metric based allocation once the deposit holders have been given an opportunity to pull the trigger (or not).
or maybe
2. Work with dealers to re-distribute deposit holders to across the network based on established metric-based issuance of allocations.
IOW: in #1 allocations are distributed to dealers based on deposits, in #2 deposit holders are re-distributed based on established metrics. #1 would be a better proposition for both dealers and deposit holders I think, but #2 could also work for customers but dealers would effectively lose sales.
Point is... Porsche appears to have gone out of their way to distance themselves from any responsibility of any kind with respect to shepherding this program. They could, if they choose, work to adjust how allocations are issued to dealers (based on their number of deposit holders) but it appears they are not doing this. Everything we've been told so far (inc from my dealer) seems to indicate its simply "business as usual" with no consideration being given to the program or the folks who have signed up for it. This seems totally thoughtless from a corporate perspective...
It matters not who is holding the deposit (dealer or corporate). Its a corporate program designed to capture our data and encourage sales. We have traded our marketing data to corporate for basically nothing in return. (Yes, I knew this going in) However, Porsche COULD do something less selfish with the data to help more fairly balance initial allocations to insiders if they wanted to.
(Again, I have no beef with my dealer or my position in line with THEM. I'm just amazed at how unnecessarily shallow this program REALLY is. The agreement itself is brazenly epic in specifically what it DOESN'T provide!)
It would be "Nice" (lets leave it at that) if a corporate program would actually offer something (anything) in exchange for participation (which DOES require payment to one of its entities). A better approach for this type of a program (IMHO) could have provided some corporate "adjustment" to allocation distribution (to dealers) proportionate to the number of deposit holders each dealership is representing. (Porsche goes out of its way to avoid any commitment to do any of this). I have been told that Taycan allocations will be issued to dealerships based upon traditional metrics. (Sales volume, etc and NOT with any consideration to the number of deposit holders at each dealer)
- Consider a smaller volume dealer who might be holding (just for arguments sake) 10 deposits. Maybe they would only traditionally get 5 allocations this year for this "class" of vehicle.
- Consider a nearby larger volume dealer who might only be holding 5 deposits. Maybe they would traditionally get 10 allocations this year.
The deposit holders at the smaller company are effectively going to be under-served while those at the larger dealer would be over-served. (Yes, I expect Porsche dealers - like BMW dealers - can trade allocations among themselves between various models of cars. However, some might not be so willing to do this, and there is no reason why this even has to be part of the equation in well managed corporate program.)
Porsche COULD do a couple of things here:
1. They could adjust the actual number of INITIAL allocations to more proportionally match the deposits on hand at each dealer (rather than more traditionally established metrics). IOW: Adjust the ratio of initial allocations pushed out to dealers to reflect the amount of deposits they hold (recognizing, of course, that not all deposit holders may pull the trigger). Proportional initial allocation to dealers based on their number of deposit holders and then resuming to established/traditional/metric based allocation once the deposit holders have been given an opportunity to pull the trigger (or not).
or maybe
2. Work with dealers to re-distribute deposit holders to across the network based on established metric-based issuance of allocations.
IOW: in #1 allocations are distributed to dealers based on deposits, in #2 deposit holders are re-distributed based on established metrics. #1 would be a better proposition for both dealers and deposit holders I think, but #2 could also work for customers but dealers would effectively lose sales.
Point is... Porsche appears to have gone out of their way to distance themselves from any responsibility of any kind with respect to shepherding this program. They could, if they choose, work to adjust how allocations are issued to dealers (based on their number of deposit holders) but it appears they are not doing this. Everything we've been told so far (inc from my dealer) seems to indicate its simply "business as usual" with no consideration being given to the program or the folks who have signed up for it. This seems totally thoughtless from a corporate perspective...
It matters not who is holding the deposit (dealer or corporate). Its a corporate program designed to capture our data and encourage sales. We have traded our marketing data to corporate for basically nothing in return. (Yes, I knew this going in) However, Porsche COULD do something less selfish with the data to help more fairly balance initial allocations to insiders if they wanted to.
(Again, I have no beef with my dealer or my position in line with THEM. I'm just amazed at how unnecessarily shallow this program REALLY is. The agreement itself is brazenly epic in specifically what it DOESN'T provide!)
Evan, as others have stated, this is not a limited production vehicle. They hope to sell as many as production will allow. So, it’s not like there will be an adjustment to number of allocations to any given dealership. Rather, we may expect they will give an allocation for every purchase request without limitation. Because the sale of Porsches are not direct sales and, the cars are purchased and sold through the dealerships, it is the dealerships that control the order of allocations that they get from Porsche. There is old history about this, Porsche originally wanted direct sales but, was forced to work with dealerships and, the ability to control allocation order, final pricing including ADMS are out of their hands. All they can control is the number of allocations of a given vehicle it gives a dealership and, as stated, for Taycans that will be unlimited. Consequently, neither option 1 or 2 you suggested would be applicable. And, again, why do you care if you have the 1st allocation anyway? Are you making this gesture of outrage at Porsches program for the rest of us?
I understand you were hoping for something more for participating in the program. I’m telling you, when you’ve given them nothing in return, that your expectation should be realistic. The 918 program was brought up because there, people were buying almost $1M cars and, Porsche gave an amazing benefit in return for that program. Taycans on the other hand will be no different than high volume Macan, Cayenne or Panamera.
If you have a problem with Porsche’s program, write them a letter of complaint. You might get some sympathies or nods here as well but, my opinion is that you’re expecting something for having given nothing and, that is rather silly. More than that, you’re asking Porsche to do something they simply cannot do because of the nature of sales of these cars through dealerships.
10-24-2019, 05:09 PM
#47
...THOSE "unlimited" allocations will be distributed over TIME...
... and Porsche NA is specifically NOT adjusting (controlling) allocations TO DEALERS to accommodate/prioritize for folks in the program. (They make this quite clear in the agreement)
I'm sorry, but if this perspective is not clear to you after all this back and forth, there is very likely nothing further I can say to help you. We've both had our say and I see no point to devalue this thread any further in that regard.
Last edited by evanevery; 10-24-2019 at 05:31 PM.
10-24-2019, 05:25 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
ALTHOUGH the "control of the number of allocations of a given vehicle it gives a dealership" is EXACTLY what I think would be appropriate for this type of a program...
...THOSE "unlimited" allocations will be distributed over TIME...
... and Porsche NA is specifically NOT adjusting (controlling) dealer allocations to accommodate/prioritize for folks in the program. (They make this quite clear in the agreement)
I'm sorry, but if this perspective is not clear to you after all this back and forth, there is very likely nothing further I can say to help you. We've both had our say and I see no point to devalue this thread any further in that regard.
...THOSE "unlimited" allocations will be distributed over TIME...
... and Porsche NA is specifically NOT adjusting (controlling) dealer allocations to accommodate/prioritize for folks in the program. (They make this quite clear in the agreement)
I'm sorry, but if this perspective is not clear to you after all this back and forth, there is very likely nothing further I can say to help you. We've both had our say and I see no point to devalue this thread any further in that regard.
10-24-2019, 05:39 PM
#49
Clearing the air...
Based on what my Dealer told me back in early Sept, they were originally expecting allocations to start dropping around the "end of October" with "deliveries starting sometime in April". It appears current speculation is now for US allocations to be issued sometime at the "beginning of November".
If anyone has any updates/insights into the allocation schedule please let us know. Certainly, if you actually manage to land an allocation, please post that info here along with your projected delivery date!
Based on what my Dealer told me back in early Sept, they were originally expecting allocations to start dropping around the "end of October" with "deliveries starting sometime in April". It appears current speculation is now for US allocations to be issued sometime at the "beginning of November".
If anyone has any updates/insights into the allocation schedule please let us know. Certainly, if you actually manage to land an allocation, please post that info here along with your projected delivery date!
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AlexCeres (10-24-2019)
10-26-2019, 04:35 PM
#50
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Heard from my cleaning lady that demo cars arriving in USA dealers in December will be allocated one-per-dealer except in CA/CARB-alike states where each dealer will get 2 demo cars. Clearly some legal/political adjustments going on. DieselGate downwash, perhaps.
10-26-2019, 05:40 PM
#51
good communication with people who have already indicated they want to be your customers is just business 101. The taycan deposit program has been amateur hour.
10-26-2019, 09:12 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
So many lawyers, so little common sense. skipping past they could, they choose not to, to the outright lameness of their marketing and communication. For a couple grand I expected to get an occasional email pumping up the release and subtly encouraging me to continue to wish to buy this product. I shouldn’t be learning basic stuff about the taycan from Internet forums. My dealer shouldn’t be treated like a mushroom almost 2 months after global announcement. Hell, a simple announcement that NA production wouldn’t start until a quarter after Europe would have smoothed over many feathers and confusion.
good communication with people who have already indicated they want to be your customers is just business 101. The taycan deposit program has been amateur hour.
good communication with people who have already indicated they want to be your customers is just business 101. The taycan deposit program has been amateur hour.
The complaints I see here reminds me of people who want something for nothing. It’s like folks are asking for “free” heath care, “redistribute” wealth from the rich to poor and so on nonsense.
Dan (thinks some people always want a free lunch)
Last edited by hfm; 10-26-2019 at 10:19 PM.
10-27-2019, 03:48 AM
#53
Burning Brakes
Porsche is making money by selling cars to their customers. Where is free lunch here?
There is a reason Rolls Royce calls their customers Patrons
Dan (needs to think about why he is getting "free" SW updates for his phone / tablet).
There is a reason Rolls Royce calls their customers Patrons
Dan (needs to think about why he is getting "free" SW updates for his phone / tablet).
10-27-2019, 06:20 AM
#54
Where is the disconnect in understanding that Porsche did not get the couple grand you gave your dealership?
The complaints I see here reminds me of people who want something for nothing. It’s like folks are asking for “free” heath care, “redistribute” wealth from the rich to poor and so on nonsense.
Dan (thinks some people always want a free lunch)
The complaints I see here reminds me of people who want something for nothing. It’s like folks are asking for “free” heath care, “redistribute” wealth from the rich to poor and so on nonsense.
Dan (thinks some people always want a free lunch)
Porsche created and ran the program. Not my local dealer. They offered additional benefits (information) associated with your myporsche account. Saying it’s not a Porsche program, and it’s lame half *** result shouldn’t reflect on them, because the cash went to their designated business partners is a perversion of logic.
Porsche got an excellent temperature of the market demand far in advance of the product availability. To the point they used the program to market how awesome and popular the taycan was in many news articles all year, adjust capital planning of the factory, and prepare to hire 500 additional workers. All before they even announced the taycan in September
so yeah, I expected an email or two for my money.
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evanevery (10-28-2019)
10-27-2019, 06:49 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Nice math and I understand completely (not sure why you would think otherwise).
The "Taycan Insider Deposit Program" is NOT a program designed in any way to HELP get cars into the hands of early adopters in EXCHANGE for their advance deposits.
The "Taycan Insider Deposit Program" is merely an ADVERTISING campaign to get folks to place a deposit with a dealer regardless of if/when that particular dealer will get allocations. The Program specifically offers nothing to its "insiders" and it apparently delivers nothing to its "insiders".
The "Taycan Insider Deposit Program" is NOT a program designed in any way to HELP get cars into the hands of early adopters in EXCHANGE for their advance deposits.
The "Taycan Insider Deposit Program" is merely an ADVERTISING campaign to get folks to place a deposit with a dealer regardless of if/when that particular dealer will get allocations. The Program specifically offers nothing to its "insiders" and it apparently delivers nothing to its "insiders".
You got the advertising part, but clearly you don't get the second part highlighted in bold.
ALL dealers have had configurable allocations since early October. if your dealer didn't offered you one, it just means they are trying to juggle their initial configurable slots among a few clients. Think 4 lips with 10 pots.
This is a particular bad problem for Porsche in the USA, as the law specifically forbid Porsche from interfering with "dealers business dealings". Porsche cannot force any dealer to do anything, the only thing they could do is to say 'you had been a bad boy so you get a few less specialty car next round'.
Since this is your first Porsche you may not know seriously how bad US Porsche dealers are. Well now you know.
Shady allocations dealings has been going on for like forever.
10-27-2019, 06:52 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
wow. that’s just ....
Porsche created and ran the program. Not my local dealer. They offered additional benefits (information) associated with your myporsche account. Saying it’s not a Porsche program, and it’s lame half *** result shouldn’t reflect on them, because the cash went to their designated business partners is a perversion of logic.
Porsche got an excellent temperature of the market demand far in advance of the product availability. To the point they used the program to market how awesome and popular the taycan was in many news articles all year, adjust capital planning of the factory, and prepare to hire 500 additional workers. All before they even announced the taycan in September
so yeah, I expected an email or two for my money.
Porsche created and ran the program. Not my local dealer. They offered additional benefits (information) associated with your myporsche account. Saying it’s not a Porsche program, and it’s lame half *** result shouldn’t reflect on them, because the cash went to their designated business partners is a perversion of logic.
Porsche got an excellent temperature of the market demand far in advance of the product availability. To the point they used the program to market how awesome and popular the taycan was in many news articles all year, adjust capital planning of the factory, and prepare to hire 500 additional workers. All before they even announced the taycan in September
so yeah, I expected an email or two for my money.
10-28-2019, 12:00 PM
#57
You really do seems seriously confused.
You got the advertising part, but clearly you don't get the second part highlighted in bold.
ALL dealers have had configurable allocations since early October. if your dealer didn't offered you one, it just means they are trying to juggle their initial configurable slots among a few clients. Think 4 lips with 10 pots.
This is a particular bad problem for Porsche in the USA, as the law specifically forbid Porsche from interfering with "dealers business dealings". Porsche cannot force any dealer to do anything, the only thing they could do is to say 'you had been a bad boy so you get a few less specialty car next round'.
Since this is your first Porsche you may not know seriously how bad US Porsche dealers are. Well now you know.
Shady allocations dealings has been going on for like forever.
You got the advertising part, but clearly you don't get the second part highlighted in bold.
ALL dealers have had configurable allocations since early October. if your dealer didn't offered you one, it just means they are trying to juggle their initial configurable slots among a few clients. Think 4 lips with 10 pots.
This is a particular bad problem for Porsche in the USA, as the law specifically forbid Porsche from interfering with "dealers business dealings". Porsche cannot force any dealer to do anything, the only thing they could do is to say 'you had been a bad boy so you get a few less specialty car next round'.
Since this is your first Porsche you may not know seriously how bad US Porsche dealers are. Well now you know.
Shady allocations dealings has been going on for like forever.
What you seem to be missing, is NOT that I'm confused - its that I think the program is just poorly implemented (from a customer's perspective).
The more you DO understand, the more you will appreciate how shallow this program really is...
10-28-2019, 12:01 PM
#58
Right, and my dealer keeps all the money I pay for a car. Sure...
10-28-2019, 03:14 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
In a way, yes!
When Porsche invoiced the dealer for your car, they pay Porsche from their pocket. In turn, your money goes into the dealer's bank account.
It's that simple!
You never pay Porsche directly.
Deposit money are never sent to Porsche, dealer keeps it, until such a time when they were invoiced for a car and then they submit that to Porsche together with the balance of their dealer invoice amount.
Not that hard to comprehend really.
When Porsche invoiced the dealer for your car, they pay Porsche from their pocket. In turn, your money goes into the dealer's bank account.
It's that simple!
You never pay Porsche directly.
Deposit money are never sent to Porsche, dealer keeps it, until such a time when they were invoiced for a car and then they submit that to Porsche together with the balance of their dealer invoice amount.
Not that hard to comprehend really.
10-28-2019, 03:16 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Why do "some folks" think I'm confused? I understand exactly what the program is offering (nothing). I was the first one to post the agreement details and comment on it in this thread...
What you seem to be missing, is NOT that I'm confused - its that I think the program is just poorly implemented (from a customer's perspective).
The more you DO understand, the more you will appreciate how shallow this program really is...
What you seem to be missing, is NOT that I'm confused - its that I think the program is just poorly implemented (from a customer's perspective).
The more you DO understand, the more you will appreciate how shallow this program really is...
To Porsche, it was just a advertising campaign. They just want you to go to your dealer to buy a car, that's it.
You simply think too much.