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<hyperbole> Porsche is doomed unless they bring out a truly revolutionary sports car that can't be matched by the dope-smoking surfer-dudes of an upstart California company. .
Have you heard of Lohner-Porsche or the CGT or 919 or 918 for that matter or indeed the 911..........................perhaps drive a Cayman first and then get back
Have you heard of Lohner-Porsche or the CGT or 919 or 918 for that matter or indeed the 911..........................perhaps drive a Cayman first and then get back
I once owned a Cayman S and told anyone who asked that it was perfect. It was too perfect - I was going to lose my license for sure, so I traded it to a friend for an old air-cooled 911 - you know, a real sports car, without computers. I drove it to the Saratoga Auto Auction yesterday, where by the way someone got a 1987 Turbo cheap ($79K).
You seem to think anyone who likes EVs is ignorant. Have you driven a Cayman S, or an air-cooled 911? A '91 Miata in 1991? A '59 Austin-Healy in - OK, I'm not that old, but I own one. A Tesla? Any EV that makes passengers scream? Have you changed a timing belt on a 928? Do you think you're smart enough to change a double-clutch in a '78 Unimog, or simply drive one? That's not relevant, except you probably think EV owners are wimps, too. So, why don't you get back to us when you've gotten more experience with cars.
Oh - I forgot something - have you ever been a consultant to Ferrari F1, as I have?
Last edited by Adk46; 09-22-2019 at 07:34 PM.
Reason: left out the word cheap
[Dave is referring to the list of vehicles in my signature.]
That's right, I own the only Tesla Turbo, one of one, as far as I know! A little whimsy on my part, not evil marketing.
I'll post this photo again at the risk of over-exposure. It was taken at a Cars and Coffee at my local Porsche dealer, managed by my good friend Christian. He's a young fellow, excited by the future, but like me he owns an air-cooled 911 and a 928. In that era, there was perhaps too much comparison between them. They were obviously designed to meet different objectives, the latter with a truly clean sheet of paper. History repeats.
I feel my Tesla Model 3 performance is quite chuckable. It reminds me in some ways of my original Porsche, a 987.2 Boxster S.
It has a shorter wheelbase than my 991.2 GT3, or a Tesla Model s, or Taycan.
Yes it weighs 4,000 lbs, but that’s far less than the 4950 lb Model S or 5100 lb Taycan.
So a smaller car with a shorter wheelbase and 471 ft lbs of torque is very chuckable. I really enjoy that aspect of the car.
I worry Porsche wouldn’t give an electric cayman/Boxster the same amount of power as a Tesla M3P so that people would be forced to choose between major power in the Taycan or chuckable but relatively low power in the electric cayman/Boxster, but it wouldn’t have both like the Tesla Model 3 Performance.
Not sure your definition of chuckable, but weight is the killer of a car's ability to change direction competently. Comparing a 4000 pound vehicle to a sub 3000 pound vehicle with the most direct steering ever made makes me wonder. I get it, you want to like what you purchased, but enjoy what it does well because it doesn't do everything well (i.e. change directions).
I eagerly await to see what Porsche can do with electric vehicles but their weight is a huge negative for anyone who enjoys tossing the car around a twisty road.
Not sure your definition of chuckable, but weight is the killer of a car's ability to change direction competently. Comparing a 4000 pound vehicle to a sub 3000 pound vehicle with the most direct steering ever made makes me wonder. I get it, you want to like what you purchased, but enjoy what it does well because it doesn't do everything well (i.e. change directions).
I eagerly await to see what Porsche can do with electric vehicles but their weight is a huge negative for anyone who enjoys tossing the car around a twisty road.
Of course a 4000 lb M3P isn’t as tossable as a 3000lb 987.2 Boxster S. Mass is mass and is the most important factor. However the size of the car and engine power also play important roles.
I loved my very tossable 987.2 Boxster S, but it was also underpowered. I was very close at one point to having BGB Motorsports swap out my Boxster engine for a 997.2 carrera S engine. I want a car that is tossable, but also fairly powerful.
The point of my previous post was simply that a 4000lb Tesla M3P is extremely tossable compared to a 5000lb Tesla Model S, or a 5100lb Porsche Taycan, particularly as the much lighter M3P still comes with 471 ft lbs of torque and is a smaller car with a shorter wheelbase than the other two larger and much heavier EVs.
I loved my very tossable 987.2 Boxster S, but it was also underpowered. I was very close at one point to having BGB Motorsports swap out my Boxster engine for a 997.2 carrera S engine. I want a car that is tossable, but also fairly powerful.
The mid engine platform can only handle so much torque without breaking traction to the point you can't modulate it well enough to get the best from it. Honestly I think 987s and 981s were purposefully underpowered by Porsche just to ensure the next thing could improve upon their performance. A FVD tune is all they need to get to where the factory should have delivered them. Software is what saddled these cars. And of course the Spyder and GT4 were saddled additionally with tall gearing. Can't win with Porsche and their incremental power increase scheme.
I once owned a Cayman S and told anyone who asked that it was perfect. It was too perfect - So, why don't you get back to us when you've gotten more experience with cars.
Oh - I forgot something - have you ever been a consultant to Ferrari F1, as I have?
I don’t even know where to begin with this but the latter part probably explains why I own a 720S rather than a Ferrari 😂
Also still have a 981 GTS, excellent car - adding a thousand pounds will significantly change its character particularly in transitions and sharp corners largely due to weight transfer at transition and momentum (= mass x velocity).
Performance cars don’t need more power and torque they need better trained more knowledgeable drivers.
That’s why skilled drivers smile wryly at Tesla owners blathering about 0-60 times plus torque plus HP. Skilled drivers understand that performance is largely about corners, braking - entry - apex - exit.
The Cayman shines in and through corners due to its excellent weight distribution and relatively low mass. It is this combination that makes it a joy to drive.
[Dave is referring to the list of vehicles in my signature.]
That's right, I own the only Tesla Turbo, one of one, as far as I know! A little whimsy on my part, not evil marketing.
I'll post this photo again at the risk of over-exposure. It was taken at a Cars and Coffee at my local Porsche dealer, managed by my good friend Christian. He's a young fellow, excited by the future, but like me he owns an air-cooled 911 and a 928. In that era, there was perhaps too much comparison between them. They were obviously designed to meet different objectives, the latter with a truly clean sheet of paper. History repeats.
Someone needs to be taken out to the woodshed for defiling that Ferrari. Even assuming those are quick peel-offs. OOF.
09-22-2019, 08:22 AM
