2020 Taycan: First ride, before first drive
#91
... I suspect for many of us - the key and most simple question is how does the Taycan drive? Where is it positioned Cayman, Carrera, Panny like - is there useful feedback through the wheel, does it brake like a Porsche (the regen braking is a given) e.g. can you modulate and trail brake effectively and ultimately how much punishment can the car take, how does it transition and rebalance - all markers for what is further down the pipeline.
For me its all about the drive, does it give you an experience you can connect with as a Porsche owner - and ultimately is it an emotive experience, like climbing a mountain you simply want to do it because its there e.g. will I wake up on a Sunday morning and look at a 720S, 991.2 GT3 RS, 981 GTS and a Taycan and say to myself "gonna take the Taycan through the twisties"
Looking forward to the review.
For me its all about the drive, does it give you an experience you can connect with as a Porsche owner - and ultimately is it an emotive experience, like climbing a mountain you simply want to do it because its there e.g. will I wake up on a Sunday morning and look at a 720S, 991.2 GT3 RS, 981 GTS and a Taycan and say to myself "gonna take the Taycan through the twisties"
Looking forward to the review.
Look forward to hearing your impressions Pete! Thanks for indulging us.
I'd love to know what you thought about the road noise. For me an important aspect of any GT car (which I feel the Taycan really falls into more than being a sports car) is the ability to be comfortable at high speed. A big part of that is how well it insulates from the road. Obviously a gas engine provides white noise which helps blend out tire and the road pebble fender tic-tic-tic that always annoys me when I'm in an EV.
I'd love to know what you thought about the road noise. For me an important aspect of any GT car (which I feel the Taycan really falls into more than being a sports car) is the ability to be comfortable at high speed. A big part of that is how well it insulates from the road. Obviously a gas engine provides white noise which helps blend out tire and the road pebble fender tic-tic-tic that always annoys me when I'm in an EV.
Looks like Porsche is letting the Press drive Teslas on the track as a comparison.
Interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2qoXglA..._web_copy_link
Interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2qoXglA..._web_copy_link
OH SNAP!!! I was wandering if Porsche would have Teslas there for comparison. I can't wait till Sept 24 gets here!
By the way, automakers do this all the time at their debuts. Congrats Tesla, you are now mainstream. My prediction, Tesla blogs and forums around the web will go into melt down mode when the comparisons go public Sept 24.
By the way, automakers do this all the time at their debuts. Congrats Tesla, you are now mainstream. My prediction, Tesla blogs and forums around the web will go into melt down mode when the comparisons go public Sept 24.
I think I can count on one hand the number of times Porsche has brought a competitive vehicle on one finger. Make that no fingers, actually. I think the only head to heads at press events I can recall were some tire intros, and that was a long time ago (one shocker for me on one of them was that the first X5 4.4i was a lot farther behind the first Cayenne S 4.5 than I thought it was before driving them back to back at Sears Point. Still preferred the X5 for styling and interior, but that was about it…)
For those who are interested. Porsche has a blog of it's current media drive activities. It's basic. But nonetheless gives you a general idea of what's going on and where they traveled.
They started in Oslo Norway; traveled through Copenhagen; went to Denmark, then into Germany-with some unrestricted Autobahn driving, etc.. They just reported day 4.
Wonder if they'll be there til Sunday/5 days?
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019...ive-18717.html
They started in Oslo Norway; traveled through Copenhagen; went to Denmark, then into Germany-with some unrestricted Autobahn driving, etc.. They just reported day 4.
Wonder if they'll be there til Sunday/5 days?
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019...ive-18717.html
Did I just buy into the Turbo naming convention? I guess I have to in order to discuss these models, for the sake of clarity (cough, cough), but the first option I'd tick is model designation delete. Car would look cleaner, too. While we are talking about looks, the thing has insane presence on the road. I'd wait for the aluminum roof with its double bubble, but all of the cars looked good—throwing out the usual rule where one color "wins" at every press event. White looks fantastic—particularly, to my shock, with 21s with white blades...very 1980s, somehow in a good way, with white calipers available to seal the return of "Triple White." Any other color, I'd order PSCB with black calipers. I was surprised I liked it as much as I did, perhaps because it looked like a concept car on the road? Car dripped of "The Future is Now." But the Dolomite Silver car was a looker, too—a nice twist on the Mission E/release cars, and ups the 911/Porsche shapes and styling cues. That car had the red interior, and the interior does like being two tones. Volcano car was initially boring to look at, but grew on me...as on the Macan, it's hard to argue with. Gentian was nice enough, but Mamba Green Metallic was the shocker of the bunch. It's only bold because everything is black/white/silver/gray these days, and is actually a very nice color and looks great on the car in person...and isn't "wild" in the way Lizard or Viper Green are. It's a lot like the old Metallic Green from the longhood 911 era. The sleeper color of the bunch, and one I'd think hard about—before going white or silver. I think.
Finally, I am pretty sure I saw one car with the Sport Design front bumper, which has larger air curtain openings...which I prefer on the configurator as they look more intentional to me. But then it disappeared.
I also like how they clearly have some ICE Porsches there also - the Taycan will drive wonderfully - I don't think it's a stretch to say that Porsche understands that better than anyone and I have full confidence the car will be a great to drive (I really enjoy'd my GT3 yesterday nice contrast to the Model 3P) - Taycan is probably the best driving EV on the market today! (and only probably because we're still waiting confirmation of the expected result) Any other result would be a let down and Porsche has had enough time with the car that it's a major screw up if that's not the outcome
I anticipate the reviews of the Taycan's driving characteristics will be stellar - hell they even got Walter R. to admit it drives pretty well and he hates EV's even more than some on this forum (well at least used to hate them until the Taycan came out)
I'll go out on a limb and suggest the $187,500 Porsche Taycan Turbo S w/PCCB's drives better than the $55,950 Model 3P in track mode.
I think the entire "negative" reaction to the Taycan can be attributed to 3 things in decending order (and of the 3 Price seems to be the MAJOR one but as some have pointed out this is Porsche what did you expect):
Everything else about the car is an out of the park success and moves the Taycan to leadership status in the EV world.
I'll predict the reviews will be stellar - the press will "paper over" the price - ignore the fast charging rate, and give Porsche a slap on the wrist regarding efficiency and ask them to better in the future - everything else will be market leader level accolades…
I think over time the reaction to the Taycan will lessen given it's stellar "car" behaviors, and it will be seen as what it is/was - Porsche first EV that was really really good, and set the stage for a company which clearly is taking this whole EV thing very very seriously
the major characteristic of EV is that they evolve more like digital tech than analog tech - which is to say fast (compare the 2012 Model S to the 2019 Model 3 - 7 years - one product cycle for Porsche)…I don't doubt Porsche can improve the product (they always always do relentless they are)…the question is how fast will Porsche do this?
#2 & #3 could be non-issues by say 2022/2023? leaving only #1 (which is also a non issue Porsche is going to price their products as they see fit)
the question in my mind is will Porsche allow the 2022/2023 Taycan to eclipse the 2019/2020 Taycan? or will they think they can wait for the 2025 Taycan?
I anticipate the reviews of the Taycan's driving characteristics will be stellar - hell they even got Walter R. to admit it drives pretty well and he hates EV's even more than some on this forum (well at least used to hate them until the Taycan came out)
I'll go out on a limb and suggest the $187,500 Porsche Taycan Turbo S w/PCCB's drives better than the $55,950 Model 3P in track mode.
I think the entire "negative" reaction to the Taycan can be attributed to 3 things in decending order (and of the 3 Price seems to be the MAJOR one but as some have pointed out this is Porsche what did you expect):
- Price
- Range/efficiency (weight is in this category since it's soo interlinked)
- fast charging rate
Everything else about the car is an out of the park success and moves the Taycan to leadership status in the EV world.
I'll predict the reviews will be stellar - the press will "paper over" the price - ignore the fast charging rate, and give Porsche a slap on the wrist regarding efficiency and ask them to better in the future - everything else will be market leader level accolades…
I think over time the reaction to the Taycan will lessen given it's stellar "car" behaviors, and it will be seen as what it is/was - Porsche first EV that was really really good, and set the stage for a company which clearly is taking this whole EV thing very very seriously
the major characteristic of EV is that they evolve more like digital tech than analog tech - which is to say fast (compare the 2012 Model S to the 2019 Model 3 - 7 years - one product cycle for Porsche)…I don't doubt Porsche can improve the product (they always always do relentless they are)…the question is how fast will Porsche do this?
#2 & #3 could be non-issues by say 2022/2023? leaving only #1 (which is also a non issue Porsche is going to price their products as they see fit)
the question in my mind is will Porsche allow the 2022/2023 Taycan to eclipse the 2019/2020 Taycan? or will they think they can wait for the 2025 Taycan?
i agree 100%. As I stated elsewhere, the press loves Porsches and love Porsche trips. And why wouldn’t you? Hell, I would kill to be there now. This thing is going to be awesome. And journalists rarely carp about price, or will give them a pass for it being a Porsche. And range...who cares about range on a press launch. Many car journalists aren’t EV savvy enough yet to notice that.
@stout if you can't answer this question I'll understand
is/was there a smile on your face most of the time while driving the Taycan? I mean your personal emotions aren't embargo'd until the 24th are they?
is/was there a smile on your face most of the time while driving the Taycan? I mean your personal emotions aren't embargo'd until the 24th are they?
Q: Does the Taycan have a 12 volt battery?
reason I ask all EV's to date have a 12 volt battery to 'bridge" to the legacy supply chain world components - rather than installing a DC to DC converter for 12 volt legacy compatibility - I'm wondering if Porsche finally shed this legacy requirement and just runs the car off the main 800v battery for EVERYTHING...
this legacy require I find hilarious in that most EV's to date use the 12 volt to power the main computer, which controls the relays to the high voltage large battery - therefore if your 12 volt battery dies - even if your 93 kwh 800 volt main battery is 100% full - you still need to jump start your EV because the 12 volt computer needs power to throw the high voltage relay
I've talked to multiple EV engineers about this kinda funny legacy requirement and always gotten the same answer: safety with the high voltage DC - no one really likes having any high-voltage DC "active" while the car is idle/off…so 12 volt is both a compatibility bridge to existing 12 volt supply chain components, and a safety factor....(also this provides a "cut/off" for accidents, must like fuel cut off in modern cars - accident = high voltage relay to "open" - no power!)
I'll be interested to hear the answer - apologies it wasn't posted a few days ago.
reason I ask all EV's to date have a 12 volt battery to 'bridge" to the legacy supply chain world components - rather than installing a DC to DC converter for 12 volt legacy compatibility - I'm wondering if Porsche finally shed this legacy requirement and just runs the car off the main 800v battery for EVERYTHING...
this legacy require I find hilarious in that most EV's to date use the 12 volt to power the main computer, which controls the relays to the high voltage large battery - therefore if your 12 volt battery dies - even if your 93 kwh 800 volt main battery is 100% full - you still need to jump start your EV because the 12 volt computer needs power to throw the high voltage relay
I've talked to multiple EV engineers about this kinda funny legacy requirement and always gotten the same answer: safety with the high voltage DC - no one really likes having any high-voltage DC "active" while the car is idle/off…so 12 volt is both a compatibility bridge to existing 12 volt supply chain components, and a safety factor....(also this provides a "cut/off" for accidents, must like fuel cut off in modern cars - accident = high voltage relay to "open" - no power!)
I'll be interested to hear the answer - apologies it wasn't posted a few days ago.
Did pass on a hello to Alex, who I really enjoyed meeting. Very cool dude, though he didn't see the fastest speed readout on the autobahn on that section…
Last edited by stout; 09-22-2019 at 12:11 AM.
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#96
You were mentioning the three things about this car that the market was disappointed with and I think the fourth is the Turbo/Turbo S name. My WTF radar went up on that immediately and then I saw the marketing logic after a few days. Now I get it as a trim level and would leave it badged a Turbo S...
I have a fifth concern and that is the flat panel displays. Are they manageable on real world bumpy roads? My first impressions while driving a new Cayenne were quite unfavorable with it being so easy to touch the wrong thing and get into menu options that were not easy to get out of while staying focused on driving.
Here's to what we learn on the 24th!
>
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Der-Schwabe (09-22-2019)
#99
Hey Pete.
Thanks for your impressions so far and future impressions.
Few questions, regarding: Range Mode; Top Speed; Drivers Display; 18 day launch; Brakes; Tesla Ring activity;
1) I know you said you were there two days. Did they allow you to drive in Range Mode, and if so, how long (in hours, days)?
You indicated earlier the range may be longer than suspected (Porsche Niagara Falls to NYC trip with a fill up at 250 miles with 39 left, indicating 290 range highway miles range). There's also a picture from a Porsche event showing 565 km range. Did your driving indicate any of this, particularly with the cars 2 speed transmission for highway driving, and up to 265 kw regeneration in city driving? Or were you guys having too much fun driving in Sports, Sports plus, and/or not allowed? LOL
2) You said Alex didn't do the fastest speed. Okay. Who did?... Was it you? LOL. And what was that speed? So is the Taycan faster than Porsche reports? Or was the speedo just that off. What did/does Porsche say? Speaking about speed: I'm assuming the real world 0-60 is 2.1-2.3 for the "Turbo S", and 2.5-2.7 for the "Turbo"? Not sure if you got to test that, or if Porsche commented?
3) You mentioned, Porsche's in an 18 day test cycle. Ok. Though the embargo will be released Mon/Tues, while (I presume) they continue to show the car to other reviewers? The 18 day launch cycle isn't over yet, right?
4) Did the new fancy Drivers Display sans cowl effectively keep out the sun? I know it looks very realistic and beautiful on Alex's video. Were you impressed, or you didn't really think about it (both good I guess, lol)? How was the rest of the dashboard area with the sun?....Did it appear to have the same treatment, thus effective? I'll wait for the ergonomics, simplicity in your review.
5) Did you get a chance to try or modulate the different levels of brake regeneration to your satisfaction? Or did you need more time, mainly drove it one way (i.e. as a performance vehicle)? It even has an Auto setting, right?
6) Now a fun question: Were you guys following, aware of all the Ring hullabaloo with Tesla? And if so: Did Porsche say anything to you guys, particularly about the One Off Race Car nature of the Tesla (stripped out interior; super semi slicks; body add ons; alleged new power train, etc.), and it's subsequent breakdown? I know their CEO had commented on Porsche "pre-production" form vs Tesla's to the media previously. Was Porsche tight lipped? Or did they give you guys some clues of their position; what's can happen in the future on The Ring ( with a possible Turbo S run), and/or future Taycan production models in response? Safe travels back home.
Thanks again Stout!!
Thanks for your impressions so far and future impressions.
Few questions, regarding: Range Mode; Top Speed; Drivers Display; 18 day launch; Brakes; Tesla Ring activity;
1) I know you said you were there two days. Did they allow you to drive in Range Mode, and if so, how long (in hours, days)?
You indicated earlier the range may be longer than suspected (Porsche Niagara Falls to NYC trip with a fill up at 250 miles with 39 left, indicating 290 range highway miles range). There's also a picture from a Porsche event showing 565 km range. Did your driving indicate any of this, particularly with the cars 2 speed transmission for highway driving, and up to 265 kw regeneration in city driving? Or were you guys having too much fun driving in Sports, Sports plus, and/or not allowed? LOL
2) You said Alex didn't do the fastest speed. Okay. Who did?... Was it you? LOL. And what was that speed? So is the Taycan faster than Porsche reports? Or was the speedo just that off. What did/does Porsche say? Speaking about speed: I'm assuming the real world 0-60 is 2.1-2.3 for the "Turbo S", and 2.5-2.7 for the "Turbo"? Not sure if you got to test that, or if Porsche commented?
3) You mentioned, Porsche's in an 18 day test cycle. Ok. Though the embargo will be released Mon/Tues, while (I presume) they continue to show the car to other reviewers? The 18 day launch cycle isn't over yet, right?
4) Did the new fancy Drivers Display sans cowl effectively keep out the sun? I know it looks very realistic and beautiful on Alex's video. Were you impressed, or you didn't really think about it (both good I guess, lol)? How was the rest of the dashboard area with the sun?....Did it appear to have the same treatment, thus effective? I'll wait for the ergonomics, simplicity in your review.
5) Did you get a chance to try or modulate the different levels of brake regeneration to your satisfaction? Or did you need more time, mainly drove it one way (i.e. as a performance vehicle)? It even has an Auto setting, right?
6) Now a fun question: Were you guys following, aware of all the Ring hullabaloo with Tesla? And if so: Did Porsche say anything to you guys, particularly about the One Off Race Car nature of the Tesla (stripped out interior; super semi slicks; body add ons; alleged new power train, etc.), and it's subsequent breakdown? I know their CEO had commented on Porsche "pre-production" form vs Tesla's to the media previously. Was Porsche tight lipped? Or did they give you guys some clues of their position; what's can happen in the future on The Ring ( with a possible Turbo S run), and/or future Taycan production models in response? Safe travels back home.
Thanks again Stout!!
#100
Oh/PS:
Were there actually any Double Bubble Roof Taycans on your junket (I know they're supposed to be available later to order)? Which is more visual beautiful, striking in your opinion (see, non performance question)? LOL
Is there a head room difference between the Double Bubble and glass panel ones, particularly for the driver (if you had access to one, Porsche commented)? I know reviews, have already indicated that taller back seat passengers may have to slide forward to get under the glass panel roof better. So, does that mean the Double Bubble's worse in that aspect, or not necessarily (especially for the driver)?
Did you, or any taller testers get to try the Legroom/Foot Garages in the back?
Thanks again Stout!
Were there actually any Double Bubble Roof Taycans on your junket (I know they're supposed to be available later to order)? Which is more visual beautiful, striking in your opinion (see, non performance question)? LOL
Is there a head room difference between the Double Bubble and glass panel ones, particularly for the driver (if you had access to one, Porsche commented)? I know reviews, have already indicated that taller back seat passengers may have to slide forward to get under the glass panel roof better. So, does that mean the Double Bubble's worse in that aspect, or not necessarily (especially for the driver)?
Did you, or any taller testers get to try the Legroom/Foot Garages in the back?
Thanks again Stout!
#101
Looks like Porsche is letting the Press drive Teslas on the track as a comparison.
Interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2qoXglA..._web_copy_link
Interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2qoXglA..._web_copy_link
#102
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Thanks Pete, makes sense where you are coming from. I wasn’t trying to sound as cynical as I probably came across, was actually trying to make a similar point, but badly I guess.
Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts next week. I’m expecting it will be pretty positive.
Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts next week. I’m expecting it will be pretty positive.
#103
That's disappointing to hear that the fender vents are closed off with the power charge port. I like the power door but I think I dislike fake vents more. I guess less to fail with the manual doors.
I wished they offered GT silver instead of that blue silver.
I wished they offered GT silver instead of that blue silver.
#104
PS Stout: Yeah. Porsche's on Day 5 now. And they state:
Taycan Roadtrip Europe
Day Five
It’s one third of the way into Taycan Roadtrip Europe, and the North American media have departed and their counterparts from China have arrived, ready to set off from Hamburg across Lüneburg Heath in the morning.
#105
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@CarMaven Wanted to chime in on one of your questions, regarding glare. The new generation of screens is really good and able to completely fight glare without a protective cowl. The first one I had was in my F10 BMW 5 series. I’ve since had a lot of seatbtime in the new Mercedes E class and GLE and they have zero cowl and no reflection either. Finally, shhhh, I know I’m not allowed to say this but my Model 3 has a huge screen in the middle of the dash, with a huge windscreen and a glass roof with no shade. I drive that thing in the blinding sun of Houston with zero issues. Finally, I’ve driven the new Panamera and Cayenne and they have very minimal overhangs on the screen and have no glare issues.
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