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I was expecting far nicer looking vehicle, also $85k ish entry level vehicle with a more futuristic interior! In addition a size in between 911 and Panemera. As none of these boxes appear to be checked I’m pretty ticked off! Looking forward to seeing BMW M3/4 reveal this month at Frankfurt, as that will now most likely be my next car! Porsche usually never disappoints, but here they have completely missed the original mark they set with the hype of the Mission E!
Thanks for sharing Pete. I'm sure it's great for what it is but personally having a hard time getting past 5,100lbs. That's a lot of periodic table elements.....
@stout thanks for the initial review and first ride impression.
I have no doubt that the Taycan can carve up a winding road like a 911 on rails, but I am curious if you have had seat time (either as a driver or passenger) behind the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid?
If you have, would you mind sharing the differences and/or similarities in driving dynamics between the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid and the Taycan?
@stout thanks for the initial review and first ride impression.
I have no doubt that the Taycan can carve up a winding road like a 911 on rails, but I am curious if you have had seat time (either as a driver or passenger) behind the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid?
If you have, would you mind sharing the differences and/or similarities in driving dynamics between the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid and the Taycan?
Thank you.
Tricky, as I had some driver's seat time in Pana Turbo S E-Hybrid on a great road I know for a proper romp while I had shotgun in the Taycan. I was duly impressed with the full-boat Pana's ability to hooligan its way up and down the road, dissecting it quite quickly despite its weight—but it felt like a low Cayenne if that makes sense? Had that same "there's a lot going on here to make this happen, even if I'm the one making the inputs." Fun, but a big thing to hurtle around with all four windows down and the exhaust crackling.
This comes with a big caveat—as I was riding shotgun to a development driver (and ex-Supercup racer) who knew how to pedal the Taycan—but the similarly heavy Taycan Turbo S felt very different to the Pana TSE-H...more responsive and flatter and faster but also...more honest. Simpler. More linear.
If that makes sense…
I suspect the over-the-road performance of the Taycan is going to catch people out, and I am very curious to experience its pace on a good road or track while making the inputs. Then I'll know more.
Tricky, as I had some driver's seat time in Pana Turbo S E-Hybrid on a great road I know for a proper romp while I had shotgun in the Taycan. I was duly impressed with the full-boat Pana's ability to hooligan its way up and down the road, dissecting it quite quickly despite its weight—but it felt like a low Cayenne if that makes sense? Had that same "there's a lot going on here to make this happen, even if I was the one making the inputs. Fun, but a big thing to hurtle around with all four windows down and the exhaust crackling.
This comes with a big caveat—as I was riding shotgun to a development driver (and ex-Supercup racer) who knew how to pedal the Taycan—but the similarly heavy Taycan Turbo S felt very different to the Pana TSE-H...more responsive and flatter and faster but also...more honest. Simpler. More linear.
If that makes sense…
I suspect the over-the-road performance of the Taycan is going to catch people out, and I am very curious to experience its pace on a good road or track while making the inputs. Then I'll know more.
It makes perfect sense to those of us who are used to fast EV's.
As I said in another thread, the Super Panamera is 200 pounds heavier than a Taycan Turbo S. Not only that, but much of it's mass comes from the ICE powertrain. You've got a twin turbo v8 with the turbos in the vee...up high where you don't want weight for performance. Good for response and emissions, bad for COG. Plus you have the cats on top of the back of the engine. That's a LOT of weight way up high. You're managing that with active anti-roll and air suspension, which makes it feel odd. It's always fighting the weight. A Panamera 4S weighs 4,100 lbs.
The Taycan has much of it's weight down low. The pack weight is 1,300 odd pounds of the 5,100 and it's LOW. Not only that but the motors are also low. Figure the motors and battery together weigh at least 1,500 lbs. What does the V6 in a Panny 4S weigh? 600 lbs? That's 900 pounds, take that away from the Taycan and you're at 4,200 lbs. So the body and rest of the car is similar to a Panamera. But even though it weighs more, the weight is low. The advantage of this surprises many used to ICE powertrains but it is a HUGE advantage. And all of that low weight contributes to lower transitory motions. Braking suffers, but roll, pitch and dive are all reduced. Which means you can lighten up on your suspension hardware as well. Although with 3 chamber air as standard, not sure how much you save there.
Tesla's suspension in the Model 3 suffers because it's cheap and doesn't have well designed, with not enough spring travel. With Porsche spending the $$ on a real suspension, I'm not in the least surprised at how well the Taycan would handle.
Last edited by Needsdecaf; 09-04-2019 at 06:50 PM.
Tricky, as I had some driver's seat time in Pana Turbo S E-Hybrid on a great road I know for a proper romp while I had shotgun in the Taycan. I was duly impressed with the full-boat Pana's ability to hooligan its way up and down the road, dissecting it quite quickly despite its weight—but it felt like a low Cayenne if that makes sense? Had that same "there's a lot going on here to make this happen, even if I'm the one making the inputs." Fun, but a big thing to hurtle around with all four windows down and the exhaust crackling.
This comes with a big caveat—as I was riding shotgun to a development driver (and ex-Supercup racer) who knew how to pedal the Taycan—but the similarly heavy Taycan Turbo S felt very different to the Pana TSE-H...more responsive and flatter and faster but also...more honest. Simpler. More linear.
If that makes sense…
I suspect the over-the-road performance of the Taycan is going to catch people out, and I am very curious to experience its pace on a good road or track while making the inputs. Then I'll know more.
unless you've live with an EV - it's hard to understand - but the weight being low and flat and mostly at or slightly below the "Axel" makes a huge difference, even my tall Model X handles pretty well for size and weight given that most of the weight is down low - it certainly handles better than ANY other 7 passenger SUV…and is as quick as the Taycan 0-60
weight distribution in EV's makes them inherently sporty due to the low CG.
unless you've live with an EV - it's hard to understand - but the weight being low and flat and mostly at or slightly below the "Axel" makes a huge difference, even my tall Model X handles pretty well for size and weight given that most of the weight is down low - it certainly handles better than ANY other 7 passenger SUV…and is as quick as the Taycan 0-60
weight distribution in EV's makes them inherently sporty due to the low CG.
That makes perfect sense, however, weight is never a good thing and for a performance car that is simultaneously touting efficiency, it still has to propel, decelerate and maneuver with that heavy burden. All of that weight places additional strain and wear on the chassis, drive train, steering , suspension components, braking system, wheels and tires which all have to be strengthened or enlarged to compensate.
I'm certain that no matter how well it hides that 5,100 lbs it's going to negatively impact the driving experience in some way shape or form in addition to the potential added long term mechanical effects.
That makes perfect sense, however, weight is never a good thing and for a performance car that is simultaneously touting efficiency, it still has to propel, decelerate and maneuver with that heavy burden. All of that weight places additional strain and wear on the chassis, drive train, steering , suspension components, braking system, wheels and tires which all have to be strengthened or enlarged to compensate.
I'm certain that no matter how well it hides that 5,100 lbs it's going to negatively impact the driving experience in some way shape or form in addition to the potential added long term mechanical effects.
Of course. Lighter is always better, for sure. But how / where you carry it makes a big difference.
That makes perfect sense, however, weight is never a good thing and for a performance car that is simultaneously touting efficiency, it still has to propel, decelerate and maneuver with that heavy burden. All of that weight places additional strain and wear on the chassis, drive train, steering , suspension components, braking system, wheels and tires which all have to be strengthened or enlarged to compensate.
I'm certain that no matter how well it hides that 5,100 lbs it's going to negatively impact the driving experience in some way shape or form in addition to the potential added long term mechanical effects.
so the Panamera at 5,300 lbs is worse than the Taycan at 5,100 pounds - got it. It' not like any of these cars are light.
so the Panamera at 5,300 lbs is worse than the Taycan at 5,100 pounds - got it. It' not like any of these cars are light.
No, they aren’t and now considering the extensive use of modern lightweight metals and composites its downright ridiculous. Perhaps the cars need to be smaller ( more efficient ) and forgo much of the virtually needless equipment they have ( even more efficient).
With that being said, I’d love to know how much of the Taycan’s weight is in the battery. I’d also like to know how the weight of the drivetrain compares to a conventional ICE vehicle.
No, they aren’t and now considering the extensive use of modern lightweight metals and composites its downright ridiculous. Perhaps the cars need to be smaller ( more efficient ) and forgo much of the virtually needless equipment they have ( even more efficient).
With that being said, I’d love to know how much of the Taycan’s weight is in the battery. I’d also like to know how the weight of the drivetrain compares to a conventional ICE vehicle.
Ah, I missed that link. So even without the pack this car still weighs 3,700 lbs which is still an awful lot considering that’s about the curb weight of most ICE sedans that size......
09-04-2019, 11:55 AM
