what safety issues does Tesla have that other cars do not? their accident and death rates are statistically significantly different?

 

I honestly think you are an idiot fighting this.

 

we well both have opinions about each other.

 

Dude, really. That's your defense? Just answer the question. You brought it up. Quoting a conversation doesn't make it a statistic.

 

It was my emotional reaction. Not a defense.

Any autopilot accident is a design failure. Legally it's driver's fault. But in reality it is just a design that doesn't take human behavior and psycho in account. And they deliver it in beta. Don't even try to say they tested it.

But there are some hardware failures as well:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/

Here is one on a dashcam: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-video.199103/

Fallen off bumpers are a safety issue for the cars behind: https://insideevs.com/news/433643/vi...mpers-fly-off/


Power liftgate too harsh when one's hand is in the way.

Cracked weldings: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...acking.100798/

Cracked A pillar (although this is a manufacturing issue, like the missing bolts in Model 3 suspension): https://www.thedrive.com/tech/9093/b...acked-a-pillar
Detached steering wheel

One thing I don't know if true or not is the unintended accelerations. We won't know the answer until black boxes will be mandatory. I guess it is driver's fault but there are too many of them. There is one where it's either a suicidal driver or one is really fighting with the car, drove it for 8km like this, then crashed:

 

And a new police car crash

 

you make it sound like only Tesla has faults - you need to provide the context and tell me why Tesla's approach has produced a statistically significant outcome - to date I don't believe that to be the case - you can find stories about this will _ALL_ cars - perhaps GM cars catching fire due to ignition faults that they knew about…

again you simply hate that Elon is getting away with what you perceive to be a grand departure form the norm - you have always had an ax to grind and feel Elon lacks his come-up-ance…

I can provide an equal number of examples where Tesla's excellent safety record is in line or better than industry norms

what is the statistically significant difference in out comes due to Tesla's approach?

Nokia engineers believe the iPhone would fail in the market place because it's large glass screen couldn't survive a necessary drop test from 2 meters…and their phones were superior because of that additional approach to engineering.

so far Tesla has survived and some would argue is on the cusp of thriving - again how has this approach gone badly for them vs. the normal rates of failure and accidents in the industry.

I do not believe you can so _ANY_ data that demonstrates Tesla's are unsafe in any meaningful way as a fleet - all you have is highly publicized point failures which is not a trend, and not a significant indication that the vehicles in general represent a problem…if you continue to state there a broad trend of actual problems from single points of failure I'll simply repost the picture of the GT3 on fire and state Porsche's approach produces unsafe cars, and my conclusions will be equally valid to yours.

it's no secrete you have an ax to grind and Tesla's approach rubs you the wrong way - but so far you can't actually demonstrate that it has had a meaningful bad outcome - anymore than I find any number of faults with ALL vehicles that have had unfortunate outcomes due to design approaches and decisions that were made.

I asked a simple question: how has Tesla's approach gone bad for them?

I'm not an idiot despite my continued interaction with you - which is actually more of indication of my intelligence that you may be believe.

 

It doesn't go bad for them. It goes bad for the customers.

I think we live in 2 different words. I'm closer to the Japanese thinking where deals are done based on good faith while you live in a world where money is uberalles and save our butts with lawyers.

 

how many customers - and again in a way that is different that any other manufacturer - there are stories about _EVERY_ automotive maker where it's gone bad for their customers - there is always. % of failure - perhaps unintended acceleration for Toyota's is your thing.

again you believe Tesla's approach leads to bad outcomes, but you don' have the proof - you have point stories which are published because Tesla is new and shiny and novel and some in the industry want them to fail - stories about VW or GM doing bad things don't sells ads because they've been doing bad things for decades, it's not interesting - how many more deaths were caused by VW's cheating on the emissions tests (particles from Diesel emissions are deadly and lead to community wide increase rates of death cause by bronchial problems) - I can tell you it's more than Tesla has ever caused…

we don't live in two different worlds - you just have a blind hatred of Tesla and feel they should've failed by now…and they aren't failing. they may not be everyone's cup of Tea, but I wouldn't buy another Nissan to save my life or Honda after what they did to me.

face it all manufactures have issues - Tesla's just more in everyone's fact so their issues are magnified and you seem to feel you have special insight and the rest of the world just can't see what you see. Well that's rarely the case.

Tesla can do better, Elon lies, there are things they've done that would've been better handled another way - but honestly I"m a loss to see them any differently than any other manufacturer and if we look hard enough we'll find problems with the Japanese, and the Germans, and the Korean's and every large scale corporation on the planet.

There are millions of Tesla's on the road and now pushing 10 years - any meaningful bad results or deviation from industry norms should have showed up by now - but it hasn't caused the rate of problems is inline with the rate of problems for all cars made by all manufactures and accident rates are equal or lower - their customers aren't suffering - you are in your "I can't stand Elon" world cause he's doing it wrong.

 

Ah yes, those oh so trustworthy, honest and honorable Japanese.

Mitsubishi Motors says cheated on mileage tests for 25 years

Mazda, Suzuki cheated on fuel economy, emissions testing in Japan

Takata Saw and Hid Risk in Airbags in 2004, Former Workers Say - 2004! Still dealing with this 16 years later!

Cheating scandals continue to plague Japanese automakers Cost-saving pressures said to have led to cutting corners

Read that last one again - "Cost saving pressures said to have led to cutting corners".

Face it, no one is immune from financial pressures.

I'm seriously disappointed by the way that Tesla "markets" Full Self Driving". But I do not view it any worse than the above automakers past sins. And others, of course. Dieselgate. Firestone Tires, etc. They've all done it. If you want to stand on a moral pedestal and avoid buying from a cheating-free auto manufacturer, I'm afraid you'll be riding a bicycle instead.

 

this one might even be a safety issue - the one@acoste says is his priority - I think there have been actual injuries from this particular approach to automotive manufacturing.

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...-need-to-know/

So still worse than Tesla.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Not by any means. I applaud the recent decision that the German courts have made in banning the terms "Self Driving" by Tesla. IMO, it should be done here as well. It's a freaking sham, IMO.

But I don't agree that they are worse than any other automaker or parts supplier. Just more 'in the moment'.

 

Those airbags were designed, tested and approved in the US. The Takata leadership in Japan had little to do with it, possibly didn't even know.

 

Ah yes, the old "rogue outpost" defense. If I recall, that was one of the first ones tried during dieselgate. "It was Bosch". Or "it was a small group in the powertrain department, no one else knew". Eventually it came to light that yes, indeed it started there, but everyone knew.

 

I read the story that was told by the engineer. He tested it, raised concerns. Their design center was reporting to Chicago. Got the answer to go ahead with production. So he quit instead.