Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Why going all defensive? You are like defending Tesla at all cost.

I don't have a position on TSLA one way or another. Stop trading it since the stock price went psycho a long time ago. (BTW, stock market is how I made my money in order to afford all the toys I have )

Actually can I ask you do YOU know how stock market works? If you do, then you will realized WHY the shorts are circling TSLA and not someone else.

BTW, 'analysts' are easily bought, wine and dine them and they will say whatever you want them to say. Ask me how I know

Literally all of Tesla's debt are tied to it's stock price, so are Elon's personal loans to the bank, and his pay package. He needs to maintained a elevated stock price just to stay afloat. Why do you think every now and then he would come out and say something taboos stock price? The shorts reads reports and do their own investigations and came to the conclusion that there is no way TSLA can be at whatever elevated price, hence the short position cause the fundamentals doesn't support the price. But like I said, TSLA is a emotional stock, there is no technical 'trend' to base it off with.

Shorts perhaps are bad for a company, but they are also there to keep a company honest. I don't see Tesla going away, it is here to stay, but some shorts are there to stay till TSLA hit $0, they have their reasons and convictions. So be it.

Shorts are like sharks in the water, they smell blood and gathered. The easiest way to get rid of shorts is to get rid of the blood. The sharks will leave and find another pool of blood to feed on. Let the stock price come back down to earth, to a reasonable level based on reasonable expectations. No more meat for shorts to feast on. It will be a bit painful, but worth it just to get rid of the distractions. From that point forward, Tesla can execute their plans according to their schedule, and not react to shorts' positions.

But right now Elon is stuck between a rock and a hard place simply because he locked in some un-reasonable stock price for their debts, personal and corporate. Letting the stock price come back isn't an option anymore. The only way left is to ramp up the fundamentals quickly to catch up and at least maintain a reasonable gap that's not very profitable for shorts. Would have been easier to do when they had the monopoly, but they don't anymore.

Originally Posted by RonF

It does not look like you understand how the stock market works. There are longs, shorts, bulls, bears, people with all kind of theories or insights but the price showing on the ticker tape is always the average of what all investors who are willing to put their money for.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

F*CK no should you spend your $$ on FSD.

Look, I really like a lot about Tesla, and there are some things I don't like. This foray down the rabbit hole of "Full Self Driving" is a total crock, IMO. I own a Model 3, have put 23k miles on it in 10 months. I know what it can and cannot do in almost every circumstance using EAP's features. (I know you do too, I'm saying this for others to clarify my viewpoint). To me Full Self Driving means just that. Full. Self. Driving. As in L4/L5 all the time, anywhere. None of this Level 3 BS or Level 4 on the highway, L3/L2 on surface streets. Full Self Driving means the car should be able to drive anywhere, at any time, with no need for driver intervention. Anything less than that to me is not "feature complete". And there's no way that's going to be in place at the end of the year.

Originally Posted by acoste

Average of investors doesn't mean fair valuation. Stock price reflects expectations which are a function of emotions. Therefore the price can be irrational for many years but eventually on the long term it will revert back to the fair valuation. Tesla is still a speculative stock at this time.

You have claimed several times that others don't understand things. Yet it was always you who had little knowledge on the subject.

Originally Posted by RonF

Whether you agree with the price or not that's just how it works. Pretty stupid to say what it "should" be. That's not for you or anyone to decide.

Originally Posted by RonF

It does not look like you understand how the stock market works. There are longs, shorts, bulls, bears, people with all kind of theories or insights but the price showing on the ticker tape is always the average of what all investors who are willing to put their money for.

Originally Posted by hf1

Shorting Ponzi schemes is a fool’s game. 1x upside, unlimited downside.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

At times.

Sometimes it worked out, like Enron, WorldCom, etc. The fundamentals doesn't support the stock price. And the house of cards folded.

Other times the short was wrong, see Ackman on Herbalife. The theory treasured by Ackman isn't correct.

Is Tesla the former or the later? Perhaps a combination of both. It is standing on solid ground, but the price is just inflated and the fundamentals doesn't correlate to the current stock prices. Hence why a boatloads of shorts are on them.

Originally Posted by Dyefrog

The lack of questions related to service is also a good sign that the increase in SC's is starting to make a difference.

Originally Posted by hf1

The problem with shorting a market fed with a firehose of fiat money (created out of nothing) is that you could be 100% right and still get run over. Such markets can remain much more irrational and for much longer than your balance sheet could sustain. Sure, you could pick up a few pennies in front of the steamroller (like the cases you mentioned), but it takes a single 5x move up against you to completely wipe you out even if it subsequently falls to $0. You mostly hear about the shorts that profited on the last leg down, not so much about those that got carried out on the way up.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Elon keep trying to pivot TSLA as all sorts of different 'kind' of company, but at the end of the day, after everything, it's still a car company and that's it. Car industries is very capital intensive and the profit margin are not that great. There is no reasonable projection to see it worth what is is right now even after factoring all future possibilities. Tesla is here to stay, it won't go belly up, eventually the stock price will come back down to match reality though, and perhaps settle down on say a 10-15 P/E. Elon had always wanted to push it as a tech company and wanted the valuation like a tech company, it is sort of like that right now but the problem is Tesla isn't one. Nor is it a ride sharing company like Uber. It is just a car company, with more vertical integration. Tesla's growth the last few years was when they have the virtual monopoly in the market, going ahead that monopoly is gone and we shall see if it can switch gear and stay ahead, if they can, there is at least some form of valid argument to support a certain level of stock price, but that's hopes and dreams.

Originally Posted by Pokerhobo

In latest earnings report, TSLA had high free cash flow than Ford. They also reported a >22% profit margin. They own their own battery chemistry, develop their own electric motors, will be building their own batteries in the future, develop all their own software (which I believe is one of their strengths), and haven't spent any money on advertising. Their energy business is still starting despite having built some of the largest energy storage deployments in the world. Their purchase of Solar City is questionable, but maybe with tomorrow's announcement they can turn that into a profit center. Seeing an American company being a disruptor in an established industry is very exciting. Personally, I like cheering on the underdog.

Originally Posted by RonF

When Tesla shows more potential of FSD there will continue be people who bought the car without it be willing to pay to add the option. More new car buyers will be purchasing the option and greatly improve the margin too.