westwest888

You are joking, right? There is zero chance they sell even 4000 of these. Maybe with a $20,000 dealer incentive.

Audi has only sold 2000 e-tron and that is sort of affordable. This will be MUCH lower volume.

westwest888

1) You have linear thinking about how cars with tall engines sitting over an axle handle. They roll on center. Battery cars sort of yaw on axis when you wiggle the steering wheel, front axle fighting the rear axle. It’s different. You don’t need a damn dynamic swaybar! I mean you could, but anyone who wants to build a car for less than $250,000 would just use a stiffer spring.

2) Because it’s now $120,000 for a 718 that goes 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.

RonF

Yes some people just don't have an idea of how physics works. Spinning an ICE car is like to spin a dumbell. Spinning a M3P is like to spin a top. Way less force is required.

Lorenfb

More data to support the view that U.S. M3 demand indicates basically no growth:

Rolling 3 month M3 U.S. sales in 2019;

1-3, 23K, 2-4, 26K, 3-5, 34K, 4-6, 45K, 5-7, 48K, 6-8, 48K

Still no three month period that is close to Q4 (63K) of 2018 for U.S. deliveries of the M3! It appears that Tesla will fall short of 200K U.S. M3 deliveries for 2019.
Very likely Tesla's Q3 will indicate another loss.

https://insideevs.com/news/368729/ev...d-august-2019/

RonF

Don't be so excited. All Q4 18' production were shipped to US buyers. 19' production were shipped all over the world. Try get a worldwide sales figure first please.

Lorenfb

Totally laughable! So it's not a demand problem but a production problem? Then what's going on at GiGA and Fremont, can't get enough tent material or enough 20 hour shift works.
Think about the naivete of your post! Don't consider ever applying for the Tesla corporate communication director's position, investment bankers would have a field day with your
responses at the quarterly reports. Luckily Elon is not relying on your sales analysis to corroborate his 2019 M3 guidance. Maybe do a little more thinking before posting.

Thinc2

If they stay at around 50K cars sold per quarter, that's pretty amazingly successful. Amy other car maker would be delighted with those volumes. Sure it's less than forecast and they need to find a path to profitability, but this is a brand new market and they are generating demand for a new type of car. I would expect to see more variability in forecasts. I hope they find a way to become profitable.

Overall, Tesla should be proud of that they have accomplished.

Signed: I hope to own a electric car someday soon, just haven't found one that suits me yet. (what I really want is M3 with a different interior)

westwest888

There is a company in LA Unplugged Performance that puts new interiors in Teslas. It costs like the same as Porsche options. $2k for alcantara headliner, $8k for full leather interior, etc.

daveo4porsche

need to normalize the numbers to compare Tesla Model S P100 range to Taycan range…

Tesla P100D has 370 mile range for 100 kWh battery - that means 3.7 miles per kWh or 270 wh/mile efficency
_IF_ the Tesla had a 93 kWh battery like the Taycan - it would be 3.7 * 93 = 344 miles of range vs. the Taycan's 256 miles range

at 256 miles range that 2.75 miles/kwh - or 363 wh/mile consumption (about the same efficiency as the Tesla Model X)

363 - 270 = 93 wh difference efficiency - or 34% less efficient for the same amount of power

still however way way better efficiency than the 28 mpg Panamera.

RonF

What is laughable is the way you're using the data. First it's certainly production limited. Then late last year Tesla was doing everything to put cars in customers' hands before the tax credit is reduced. Indeed I need to do a little more thinking whether I need to discuss with a brainless person.

acoste

I drove friends' cars from both.
Your comments show you haven't. Nor have you driven a BMW M3. not a stable car ....

P100D has 345 mile range for 100kWh with 19 inch wheels (width 245 mm)
P100D has 325 mile range for 100kWh with 21 inch wheels (width 245/265)

Taycan's usable battery size will be around 80kWh.
Tire size 20 inch (width 245/285)

groundhog

There is nothing linear about my thinking, its called physics and you clearly have no idea about performance cars or suspension set up - to control yaw you trade off spring rates, ARB thickness and suspension geometry - 0-60kmh is not a relevant metric, thats what kids in high school discuss, in contrast laptimes are as they reflect the sum of the parts.

The problem faced by all EVs is they are heavy - weight kills performance generally, you can mask it for a time but you can never hide it and ultimately weight kills tires and tires control performance. For example the lightest Model 3 Performance is around 1,000lbs heavier than my GT3 RS and 981GTS - and you always feel weight in fast transfers.

For me, the Taycan has delivered on driver engagement married with genuine performance capability, fast charging (objectively) - the range will be a let down for some and to others it will be a shoulder shrug. Likewise on price some prefer quality over quantity.

destaccado

No. For $150,000+ I don't think the Taycan has delivered on driver engagement at all. Is this car more engaging than my GT3 because it definitely costs more?

This car has delivered on being an overpriced joke that the majority of Porsche owners on Rennlist are laughing at. Imagine what Tesla fan boys are saying...

RonF

I said it's a stiff but not stable in comparison. Have you driven a Model 3? Anyone who has driven both can tell you that.

cometguy

Porsche is obviously rolling out the high-end Taycans first, of which very few will be bought. Even Porsche owners will likely never see one of the poorly-named "Turbo" or "Turbo S" Taycans on the road (outside of test drives from dealerships). I think that Porsche is unable to manufacture many of these yet, and they are stalling for time by introducing these high-end Taycans now. The real test is when the "lower-trim" Taycans come out in the next year or so -- how much range they have and how much they will cost. Word has been out for some time that there will be a low-end Taycan starting around $85k (USD) with only one axle powered. That won't challenge Tesla, either. It will also be interesting to see when the Sport Turismo version comes out in the next year or two -- which may be more like the Model S and will be a true hatchback. Regular sedans aren't the future. The Taycan Turbo does have back seats that go down, but the height for storage is very limited due to the back of the trunk space.

Porsche is only likely to challenge Tesla in any meaningful way with its forthcoming Macan EV in 2-3 years, in terms of presumably lower price that should lead to many purchases.