tracking a standard cayman R/boxster spyder
#16
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joe, I may have generalized a bit as some tire chirping can be due to wheel locking (split/fractional second before ABS kicks in), i.e. "normal".
If we're talking about the rear end being "squirrely" under near-threashold braking, then I'll say this (YMMV, of course): multiple racers and much skilled people (i.e. not me) have said that this is due to LSD, or lack thereof. So did Matt Monson from GT.
The last bit may be construed as being a marketing ploy, but this is what multiple, independent skilled people have said: BEFORE - squirrely back end, AFTER Guard LSD - no such thing. And I'm not talking about some random "instructors" that have gone through the ranks because their region/body is very lax (all too common these days).... Don't get me started on some of these "advanced" or "upper intermediate" people these days.
Inside wheel spinning on a tight, fast corner would be an easily identifiable cause for a good LSD. However, there are other reasons/areas where you may think that you're doing OK but in reality could be doing a lot better with a proper LSD. I'm talking about seconds off of lap times, though admittedly this is not that important in terms of DE's (i.e. not racing).
If we're talking about the rear end being "squirrely" under near-threashold braking, then I'll say this (YMMV, of course): multiple racers and much skilled people (i.e. not me) have said that this is due to LSD, or lack thereof. So did Matt Monson from GT.
The last bit may be construed as being a marketing ploy, but this is what multiple, independent skilled people have said: BEFORE - squirrely back end, AFTER Guard LSD - no such thing. And I'm not talking about some random "instructors" that have gone through the ranks because their region/body is very lax (all too common these days).... Don't get me started on some of these "advanced" or "upper intermediate" people these days.
Inside wheel spinning on a tight, fast corner would be an easily identifiable cause for a good LSD. However, there are other reasons/areas where you may think that you're doing OK but in reality could be doing a lot better with a proper LSD. I'm talking about seconds off of lap times, though admittedly this is not that important in terms of DE's (i.e. not racing).
#17
Nordschleife Master
Thanks.
My outer edge is wearing more than the inner edge, although not severe. Hmm, I have to look into LCAs then. do you have to get an alignment done once the LCA is installed to get the max camber?
My PS2s protest once the limit is reached but the breakaway is pretty gradual in my opinion. I am going to be tracking the spyder tomorrow so I'll let you know what happens with almost new PS2s..
My outer edge is wearing more than the inner edge, although not severe. Hmm, I have to look into LCAs then. do you have to get an alignment done once the LCA is installed to get the max camber?
My PS2s protest once the limit is reached but the breakaway is pretty gradual in my opinion. I am going to be tracking the spyder tomorrow so I'll let you know what happens with almost new PS2s..
My PS2s never treated me that well for some reason. Perhaps it's my driving style or perhaps they were too worn or heat cycled out. My new NT01s and 18" wheels should arrive this week, so problem solved. I'll stick with stock 19" PS2s for the street.
#18
Nordschleife Master
So I'm not the only one that has noticed this. It seems to be a PCA thing, which is why I don't run with them. Being an 'instructor' seems more like a social ladder rather than being a legitimate honor. No offense to the PCA instructors here who are legit.
#19
In all fairness, I think your experience may be related to the region(s) that you've run with. Instructors in my region/chapter are simply excellent, and I've met those from other regions that were also excellent (more so with regions that are strict).
Let me say this: it had taken my first ever instructor 8 years to reach that status. This is definitely not the case with some of the other regions.
Also in fairness, I was not talking about PCA in general...
#20
Nordschleife Master
Joe, you're gonna get us into trouble!!
In all fairness, I think your experience may be related to the region(s) that you've run with. Instructors in my region/chapter are simply excellent, and I've met those from other regions that were also excellent (more so with regions that are strict).
Let me say this: it had taken my first ever instructor 8 years to reach that status. This is definitely not the case with some of the other regions.
Also in fairness, I was not talking about PCA in general...
In all fairness, I think your experience may be related to the region(s) that you've run with. Instructors in my region/chapter are simply excellent, and I've met those from other regions that were also excellent (more so with regions that are strict).
Let me say this: it had taken my first ever instructor 8 years to reach that status. This is definitely not the case with some of the other regions.
Also in fairness, I was not talking about PCA in general...
#21
wtf is right... what struck me more, really, is why the hell would an instructor want to "follow you" in a different car when it's your first time EVER on that particular track??
Last edited by the_vetman; 08-21-2012 at 03:41 AM.
#22
Nordschleife Master
To clarify it was my first time at the track, but the 3rd session of the day. He sat in my car prior to the 'follow lead'. Definitely not the norm, but the last time I ran with that particular organization.
haven't seen the "do you know smooth" video. please post link.
haven't seen the "do you know smooth" video. please post link.
#23
Some good advice above but for the occasional track day I feel that a lot if it is overkill.
Tires: check your tire pressures hot as stated above. At this point you are probably unnecessarily overheating your tires (tyres) and compromising grip and tire life.
Brakes: Leave everything as is except for changing the brake fluid once a year. Stock pads and fluid are just fine.
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Tires: check your tire pressures hot as stated above. At this point you are probably unnecessarily overheating your tires (tyres) and compromising grip and tire life.
Brakes: Leave everything as is except for changing the brake fluid once a year. Stock pads and fluid are just fine.
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#24
Took some time to find:
And now... for the main event... how the above should've been done:
BTW, I was speaking of non-PCA instructors... though I'm sure there are bad ones in PCA also (such as the one you had).
And now... for the main event... how the above should've been done:
BTW, I was speaking of non-PCA instructors... though I'm sure there are bad ones in PCA also (such as the one you had).
#25
Nordschleife Master
Took some time to find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwa9TMG63fM
And now... for the main event... how the above should've been done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zptob...layer_embedded
BTW, I was speaking of non-PCA instructors... though I'm sure there are bad ones in PCA also (such as the one you had).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwa9TMG63fM
And now... for the main event... how the above should've been done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zptob...layer_embedded
BTW, I was speaking of non-PCA instructors... though I'm sure there are bad ones in PCA also (such as the one you had).
2nd video is hilarious.
Vet, why are you tip-toeing around PCA? Are they part of the mafia in your region or something?
My bad coach experience wasn't with PCA, actually. My impressions on PCA have come from heresay as well as personal dealings with some of the people that run with or are involved with their events
#26
First video is unreal. Something wasn't right in that coach's head. Very bizarre.
2nd video is hilarious.
Vet, why are you tip-toeing around PCA? Are they part of the mafia in your region or something?
My bad coach experience wasn't with PCA, actually. My impressions on PCA have come from heresay as well as personal dealings with some of the people that run with or are involved with their events
2nd video is hilarious.
Vet, why are you tip-toeing around PCA? Are they part of the mafia in your region or something?
My bad coach experience wasn't with PCA, actually. My impressions on PCA have come from heresay as well as personal dealings with some of the people that run with or are involved with their events
My favorite moment on 2nd vid:
Driver (RHD): "Can I go faster now?"
Instructor (left side): "If you want to die."
I'm not tip-toeing around PCA. Flaming and causing ruckus aren't exactly foreign concepts to me, but mostly from my young & dumb days.. Just didn't want to offend readers and good PCA instructors who aren't even reading.
I can't comment on your personal experience (obviously), but can certainly see how certain region(s) can be that way. A relatively local region is known for being strict and "hard asses"/"******" (actual quotes from their own membership)... I've heard rumors that my own region used to be very stand-offish and unfriendly, but that has not been my personal experience so far. However, I rarely get to attend regional events due to my crazy-a$$ schedule...
#27
Nordschleife Master
Put me in the 'young & dumb' category.
That first video made no sense to me all. I just can't understand why the guy would act that way. He was babbling about wearing a closed face helmet for the first time in the beginning. Maybe he got claustrophobic or sick, and then freaked out. Maybe he was having a TIA. Or he was just a top grade *******. So strange....
That first video made no sense to me all. I just can't understand why the guy would act that way. He was babbling about wearing a closed face helmet for the first time in the beginning. Maybe he got claustrophobic or sick, and then freaked out. Maybe he was having a TIA. Or he was just a top grade *******. So strange....
#28
Khooni,
If you're gonna stay oin street tires and just do occasional days you can get by with stock suspension with as much negative camber up front that you can get. Plenty of track alignment recommendations out there, but just a tad toe out up front and a tad toe in out back and you'll be fine on street tires.
If you continue to use stock brake pads, keep an eye on wear. Once they (or any pad) reaches 50% thickness, they begin to wear exponentially faster and transfer more heat to the fluid. If you're trying to maintain your warranty, stay away from ATE Blue. It's nearly impossible to flush out all the dye and dealers have been known to void warranties as a result.
RE Fluids:
Mobil 1 engineer suggested no more than 2K miles of combined track/street driving based on heat related deterioration of M1 (specifically 15-50 which is thicker than our fill).
Mobiloil PTX 75-90 is the factory fill and the only transaxle fluid you should use with a stock transaxle due to the carbon content of the synchronizers. Not readily available in US but maybe different in Europe. I changed mine out at 10K miles and found an improvement in shifting. I suspect cleaner fluid may help the LSD last a little longer but not based on any objective data. It may help the transaxle (and by conduction the engine) run cooler.
Have a blast!
If you're gonna stay oin street tires and just do occasional days you can get by with stock suspension with as much negative camber up front that you can get. Plenty of track alignment recommendations out there, but just a tad toe out up front and a tad toe in out back and you'll be fine on street tires.
If you continue to use stock brake pads, keep an eye on wear. Once they (or any pad) reaches 50% thickness, they begin to wear exponentially faster and transfer more heat to the fluid. If you're trying to maintain your warranty, stay away from ATE Blue. It's nearly impossible to flush out all the dye and dealers have been known to void warranties as a result.
RE Fluids:
Mobil 1 engineer suggested no more than 2K miles of combined track/street driving based on heat related deterioration of M1 (specifically 15-50 which is thicker than our fill).
Mobiloil PTX 75-90 is the factory fill and the only transaxle fluid you should use with a stock transaxle due to the carbon content of the synchronizers. Not readily available in US but maybe different in Europe. I changed mine out at 10K miles and found an improvement in shifting. I suspect cleaner fluid may help the LSD last a little longer but not based on any objective data. It may help the transaxle (and by conduction the engine) run cooler.
Have a blast!
#29
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
so yesterday i had an evening track day with the spyder. It was a GT Porsche sponsored trackday with Jethro Bovington gives free rides on a Porsche GB Gt3 RS. He's a real likeable guy and was drifting everywhere as if the tyres dun below to him... wait a minute they dun
but the noise was incredible.
The spyder performed flawlessly as I kept pace with 997 Gt3s. The car is more stable than the CR and moves around at the limit less. In a way, the more balanced CR is slightly more fun. Smoothness in the spyder is more rewarding whereas, get this, it is less upsetting to pitch the CR or Gt3 RS into turns than the spyder. But the stare factor on the spyder is about 3X more than the CR
but the noise was incredible.
The spyder performed flawlessly as I kept pace with 997 Gt3s. The car is more stable than the CR and moves around at the limit less. In a way, the more balanced CR is slightly more fun. Smoothness in the spyder is more rewarding whereas, get this, it is less upsetting to pitch the CR or Gt3 RS into turns than the spyder. But the stare factor on the spyder is about 3X more than the CR
#30