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So, I've installed the FVD software on the CR and can feel the little more urgency on the upper ends of the range. FVD has an enticing set of 200 cell cat headers and free upgrade on the software to match. My car has PSE that I like and don't need to exchange out.
Why should I spend the $$ for headers? Better sound? An extra 20hp? Will my life really get better?
From what I’ve seen, heard and read the free flowing cats in conjunction with PSE basically amplifies the sound while maintaining similar pitch and no drone. I thought they added more than 20 Hp although it could be CAT and Tune dependent. If you don’t have emissions tests in your area it is definitely worth considering IMHO.
Do it for all the reasons! I'm running FVD's software with Fabspeed race headers + PSE and the sound is absolutely amazing. I dyno'd the car both before and after the headers (same dyno) and it resulted in +25 whp on my R.
Do it for all the reasons! I'm running FVD's software with Fabspeed race headers + PSE and the sound is absolutely amazing. I dyno'd the car both before and after the headers (same dyno) and it resulted in +25 whp on my R.
The before/after was with Fabspeed catless headers only. No aftermarket tune on the car at all, that came after both dyno runs.
The reason I did this was to prove what I assumed...all the tuning companies will show dyno results with their headers + tune, but I suspected and proved headers alone are responsible for almost all of the power gain. In fact, headers are by far the best single modification you can do to add power to these cars. I plan to dyno again now that I have the tune and I'll be surprised if it adds even 5 whp additional.
So, I've installed the FVD software on the CR and can feel the little more urgency on the upper ends of the range. FVD has an enticing set of 200 cell cat headers and free upgrade on the software to match. My car has PSE that I like and don't need to exchange out.
Why should I spend the $$ for headers? Better sound? An extra 20hp? Will my life really get better?
Talk me down or convince me, please.
Reposted from April 2023
Originally Posted by A432
Another data point for those watching this....I've been through 3 sets of HJS 200 cell cats on the 987.2 3.4L (the 3rd set are on now and fine but only street driven)
The issues I had on the track weren't CEL related but center core movement from heat during hard track sessions. I dynoed them and they made a whopping 4hp/5ft.lb.
Regarding maps and CELs, I ran them with 3 maps, stock, COBB 93 octane and COBB custom dyno tuned and all didn't CEL. (COBB is CARB EO'd) D-660-92
The reason I still run them on the street is I do like the slight sound improvement/light weight vs. going to a valved exhaust and they seem stable/reliable in the lower temp. street environment.
If you are in a state that now follows CARB visual rules, the other benefit is you can have them installed on stock headers by Cantrell or Carnewal and they pass the visual.
Originally Posted by A432
YW. I watched multiple manifolds with HJS 200 cell cats get tested and the numbers were always very close.
My take on that is the catalytic brick effectively dampens any scavenging effect of the primary length/collector and becomes the limiting factor.
Look at Soul's numbers for theirs, very conservative and similar to what I got (I actually saw a little more)
It's very easy to inflate dyno numbers if someone wants to show impressive gains. Who is doing the test matters.
Regarding the failures of my HJS 200 cell cats, the car was being pushed very hard in competition (Auto Club Speedway/Willow Springs etc. 140+ speeds) and
it's possible for lighter DE work they would have lasted longer. (mine failed at ~20 track days)
Given that, I'd still run stock or catless for track work.
The CARB issues are sadly spreading and seeing how NY seems to follow CA craziness, not sure how long you have
edit: A quick search shows NJ is now a CARB state, maybe they simply haven't instituted the visual yet, not sure.
My current 200 cells are so I can keep legal/sound/light weight on the retired track R, now canyon cruiser. (titanium aft of the manifold)
The car is now fully CARB compliant for visual/DME with the 200 cells in the stock manifolds, catback, EVO intake and an EO'd COBB flash in the DME.
One thing I didn't explain is, the Siemens DME used on the 987.2 DFI cars will continue making more power through runs 3 and possibly 4 trying to optimize the timing/mixture.
So it's possible someone does 2 runs, then swaps the parts and does 2 more runs and partially gets higher numbers because the SDI 3.1 is still optimizing. (either accidentally or intentionally)
My numbers above for the 200 cell cats was with fully allowing the DME to optimize (which took 16 total runs for 3 maps)
To put this in practical terms, a 330hp engine at 60F and sea level loses approx. 10hp with a temp increase to 75F. So the 200 cell cat effect is approx. having 7.5 deg F cooler air at sea level.
Do it - but of course I’m biased. I have 200 cell headers on my Spyder, with FVD tune, and the PSE which I leave open all the time. I get compliments on the sound from other PCA members at auto crosses etc. Plus my son wants me to nail it when we go under an overpass It makes one ridiculously sounding good car. The hp is just another bonus compared to the sound.
I have PSE on my Spyder and it’s on 100% of the time . I am looking for more howl, researching the alternatives, and wondering why with almost all cars the move is to go to muffler replacement (or 3rd or side muffler delete in the case of 911’s) but with the 987.2’s it seems to be to go to 200 cell headers. Why is this?
I have PSE on my Spyder and it’s on 100% of the time . I am looking for more howl, researching the alternatives, and wondering why with almost all cars the move is to go to muffler replacement (or 3rd or side muffler delete in the case of 911’s) but with the 987.2’s it seems to be to go to 200 cell headers. Why is this?
Part of it is marketing and false claims by some with an invested interest, if you scroll up I discussed the actual dyno numbers I saw on multiple 200 cell tests.
That said, the 200 cells don't drone and aren't louder while cruising/part throttle with a slightly deeper tone. On throttle they're maybe 10% louder, very mild.
Imho the PSE is one of the best sounding exhausts on the car. The howl sound you're looking for is probably the catless+PSE, along with all the potential legality issues that go along with it.
The question you’re asking “ to be talked in or out of it” depends on your reasoning. If you want a more powerful car to I’m prove lap times, then there are far better ways to spend your money, mostly on proper driver training, tires, and suspension modifications. No one can really say a 20hp gain was felt significantly by the seat of their pants. It may register on a dyno but not really anywhere tactile. However if your reasoning is purely for excitement reasons through better sound, then exhaust mods are a great way to get some thrills. My car for example has a full Capristo system on it, with headers, sport cats, and exhaust. It’s insanely expensive, like $11k or something crazy like that. Fortunately the previous owner put it on. In normal mode it sounds good and the car feels quick. In full open mode the car sounds like a straight pipe GT3, and mentally feels like it’s a lot faster, because of the sound. It definitely gets the heart pounding and gets noticed a lot. I don’t like unnecessary attention, so I keep it closed most of the time, but again if your reasoning is pure excitement then go for it. Lastly for what it’s worth, no exhaust company has the R&D budget of Porsche, or the endurance racing experience to draw off of. From the very earliest 911’s to modern Porsches, it’s rare when an aftermarket exhaust can improve a lot on what Porsche has already engineered, for performance, efficiency, reliability, and longevity.
I have PSE on my Spyder and it’s on 100% of the time . I am looking for more howl, researching the alternatives, and wondering why with almost all cars the move is to go to muffler replacement (or 3rd or side muffler delete in the case of 911’s) but with the 987.2’s it seems to be to go to 200 cell headers. Why is this?
Because unlike the 987.1 and many other cars, the 987.2 has all four cats in the exhaust manifolds, so a manifold/headers swap will make the biggest difference for sound/power.
I was in the same boat with my Cayman R. Go with high-flow headers (catless or 200-cell cats) and you will have all the howl you desire. With the factory PSE closed, my R is now slightly louder than it was previously with them open. The power is nice too.
03-04-2024, 06:46 PM
Someone Convince Me On Headers (Or Not)
It makes one ridiculously sounding good car. The hp is just another bonus compared to the sound.
