Lemming

My wiring work is about done and was wondering if the cruise control module can be removed? I do not see anything in the rules that says that it can be removed, so does that mean I have an illegal car if I rip it out?

Along those same lines, I'm starting to think about the cooling system. I have all the parts for the 3rd radiator install, and was about to start wiring the radiator fans. Some on this forum have stated that they removed the radiator fans, but I don't see information in the rule book saying that they can be removed. Am I missing something?

tgsmith4845

Remove them, especially the radiator fans

Lemming

Yes, but is the car legal after the fans are removed? That was my question.

In looking over the rules yet again, I feel comfortable removing the cruise control module based on:

7. Interior B. All interior items and insulating material may be removed except where otherwise noted. Doors may be gutted, except factory door beams must be intact or protruding intrusion door bars must be added to the cage.

jdistefa

^ yes

We removed the driver's side fan but kept the passenger one in for cooling at idle, grid, low speed (think about being stacked up under yellow flag).

Lemming

Living and racing in the SE, at the most I was going to remove only 1 fan for that exact reason.

Lemming

It is interesting that other spec classes make specific mention of radiator fans:

SPC

B. Cooling System. With the exception of the addition of a Tiptronic third radiator kit or a similarly vented and located third radiator, the cooling system must remain stock. Radiator fans may be direct wired with a switch, and one of them may be removed.

ace37

I pulled the CC system and felt comfortable with it on that basis.

I wondered if the guts of the side mirrors might also be part of the door. Of course you could take the interpretation too far and argue about removing the side mirrors entirely or replacing them with custom side mirrors; I don't think that's at all within the intent of the rule. So far I've left them untouched.

Appreciate your feedback in the other thread on the dash. I'm wondering if the intent of the rules was to keep the dash in the car based on an older POC rule set talking about how the lower dash can be removed (implying the upper dash would remain). This was significant because PCA essentially copied the POC class rules to make it a national class. But if I had never seen a SPB, based on reading the rules I would not have expected to see the factory dashboards in the majority of cars - just the instrument pod, driver controls, roll cage, and maybe some relocated electronics. A switch plate and something less ugly where the dash used to be might also be pretty common.

ace37

On removing the radiator fans, I don't think it's within the rules, at least not how I read them. I do think it's very common.

I think removing some some of the spot welded parts of the floor is another common but technically not legal modification.

Windshield washer system removal should be added to the rules where it says you can pull the wipers. Since you can pull the wipers I think it's safe to assume but it should probably say so explicitly.

The rear bumper appears to need to be replaced with a steel beam if removed, but the language there could be interpreted to not require it (e.g. the steel beam 'may' be added) so I wonder if a few cars have nothing back there. The front bumper structure appears to need to be stock, and I assume that's what most everyone does.

I'd like to see this stuff and my dash question clarified in the future rules. No change to the rules per se, just clarifications to make sure everyone building these spec cars does it the same way. There would be zero sense DQing folks for pulling a radiator fan. But I'd like to see it allowed within the rules.


I read from a NASA forum what I thought was a clean way to think about the general case of gutting an interior to build a race car for a class ruleset: if it's bolted, it's fair game to pull it. If it's welded, it stays unless specifically allowed. I thought that seemed very sensible and am using that line of reason in my decisions.

Streak

Do this. I have none and waiting on grid etc can be problematic.

Lemming

Based on my reading, I'm going to leave the fans unless Walt F. tells me it's ok (email has been sent). The dash is coming out, as is the rear bar that supports the steering wheel and pedal setup. I will replace that with a front cage bar (no reason to have both the stock and cage bar IMO). The instrument POD will remain.

Lemming

Got word back from Walt F.

Regarding fans:

"As to the radiator fan, this is yet another of those original rules provisions which somehow didn't get carried over into our rules. Yes, you can remove the front radiator fan. You are right, most of the "old timers" have done this. The only downside is overheating on the grid or in the hot pits during enduro stops if you don't want to shut the engine down. But that's not a safety issue, and I am told is only an issue at very high ambient temperatures, and especially when amplified by high altitude. You should print this last e-mail in the string and keep it in your log book until we put out a rules correction."


Regarding the dash:

"Well, the dash board it turns out is not one of the "interior items" which may be removed. In the past, guys who have replaced it with carbon fiber have had to put the stock dash back. You need the dash to hold various switches.

Best not to do this."


I don't have an issue with either of these other than to say that they need to be corrected in the SPB rule set.

ace37

Thanks for posting this.

mmuller

This is what I was going to post just now. Previous versions of the rule book included wording around this. As each revision goes by, some items get dropped by accident. I will admidt it makes it hard for those doing new builds to know this.

I went back and looked at rule books as far back as 2013. At one point (2015 I think) the radiator stuff was dropped for some reason., but new rules where added.

Lemming

I've always believed that if it's not written, then it's really not a rule. But given that it will likely go back in, I'll plan on installing my dash.

Lemming

Let's discuss front and rear metal bumpers.

The rules say that "The rear metal bumper may be removed, and a steel reinforcement added in its place" [rule 6E]. Looking online at pics, it appears that many have removed, but not replaced with a steel reinforcement. Additionally, lot's have removed the front metal bumper as well, yet nothing in the rules states that you are allowed. Are these yet more unwritten or missed rules?