Spec Boxster vs. Miata
03-13-2016, 05:16 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Spec Boxster vs. Miata
Hi folks --
First time poster here!
After several DE days in my M235 convertible, I've been bitten by the bug and am looking to get into my first dedicated track car. My plan is to buy something stock and gradually build it into a spec racer (no truck/trailer... yet). DE --> TT --> Racing.
I was pretty set on going the Miata route as it's a well regarded starter car with great community support, but something about Miata doesn't appeal to me emotionally. So I started looking at going the E36 M3 or 986 Boxster route.
But here is where I get stuck... From what I can tell, Boxsters seem higher maintenance and 2x the running cost, and in return all you get is 2-3 seconds faster laps at my local tracks (Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Sonoma). I'm having a hard time justifying it to myself (and my wife!
)
Can someone (ideally who has considerable butt time in both Miata & Boxsters) tell me what all the fuss is about? As much as I'd love for someone to talk me into the Boxster (944 doesn't do much for me either), I'd prefer balanced opinions so I can arrive at the best decision.
Many thanks,
Josh
First time poster here!
After several DE days in my M235 convertible, I've been bitten by the bug and am looking to get into my first dedicated track car. My plan is to buy something stock and gradually build it into a spec racer (no truck/trailer... yet). DE --> TT --> Racing.
I was pretty set on going the Miata route as it's a well regarded starter car with great community support, but something about Miata doesn't appeal to me emotionally. So I started looking at going the E36 M3 or 986 Boxster route.
But here is where I get stuck... From what I can tell, Boxsters seem higher maintenance and 2x the running cost, and in return all you get is 2-3 seconds faster laps at my local tracks (Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Sonoma). I'm having a hard time justifying it to myself (and my wife!
)Can someone (ideally who has considerable butt time in both Miata & Boxsters) tell me what all the fuss is about? As much as I'd love for someone to talk me into the Boxster (944 doesn't do much for me either), I'd prefer balanced opinions so I can arrive at the best decision.
Many thanks,
Josh
03-14-2016, 12:24 AM
#4
Difference is $$$ and 1000 cc
In the right hands that 1.6 liter gets the point bys from the Z06's and GT3's
Mx5 infinitely less expensive to track and maintain etc.
In the right hands that 1.6 liter gets the point bys from the Z06's and GT3's
Mx5 infinitely less expensive to track and maintain etc.
Last edited by Dr911; 03-21-2016 at 08:40 PM.
03-14-2016, 12:44 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The one advantage I can kind of think of for the Boxster is the racing field seems smaller, so there is less bumper-to-bumper contact... I could see why that would be appealing.
I posted a similar question in a Miata forum, and the answer there is the P-car carries more prestige (at least in the heads of the people driving them). But I'd like to think there is more to it than that.
03-14-2016, 02:00 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
I've never raced either, but I've owned a Miata I took to the track, and I currently own a spec Boxster that I also take to DE days. I have raced a Formula Ford.
The Miata is lighter, better balanced, and has a better suspension (double A-arms vs. the Boxster's struts). It's easy to catch when you exceed the limits. I think the cornering G's are a little higher. No real acceleration though.
The Boxster has more power, but weights about 350 lbs more. Although at 2650 lbs with driver, it's lighter than most production-based race cars. The square set-up that most people run now is faster, but can oversteer.
As for costs, a nationally competitive Miata needs a top engine--10, 15, even $20k. You can buy a Spec Miata for as little as $10k, but a competitive one is a lot more.
You can build a Spec Boxster for about $30k. Here's a spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
You can buy one for 25-35.
Stock engines are fine (don't need a pro built motor to be competitive), but you do need to replace the IMS bearing, the rear main seal, and some other things, all external.
I see you're in norcal. We have a nice group of spec boxster racers here, in the Golden Gate Region of the PCA. We hang out in a "secret" facebook group. Come to an event and meet the guys!
Generally, I think the Spec Boxster guys have friendly racing, and the Spec Miata guys are hard core.
Hope this helps.
The Miata is lighter, better balanced, and has a better suspension (double A-arms vs. the Boxster's struts). It's easy to catch when you exceed the limits. I think the cornering G's are a little higher. No real acceleration though.
The Boxster has more power, but weights about 350 lbs more. Although at 2650 lbs with driver, it's lighter than most production-based race cars. The square set-up that most people run now is faster, but can oversteer.
As for costs, a nationally competitive Miata needs a top engine--10, 15, even $20k. You can buy a Spec Miata for as little as $10k, but a competitive one is a lot more.
You can build a Spec Boxster for about $30k. Here's a spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
You can buy one for 25-35.
Stock engines are fine (don't need a pro built motor to be competitive), but you do need to replace the IMS bearing, the rear main seal, and some other things, all external.
I see you're in norcal. We have a nice group of spec boxster racers here, in the Golden Gate Region of the PCA. We hang out in a "secret" facebook group. Come to an event and meet the guys!
Generally, I think the Spec Boxster guys have friendly racing, and the Spec Miata guys are hard core.
Hope this helps.
03-14-2016, 08:57 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
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I race a 968 in E class and a Spec Miata, I built the Spec Miata as I wanted to do more racing locally, ran the car with SCCA last year but I could also run the car with NASA, and MCSCC. Plus its a lot cheaper to run.
That said you will get more track time with the PCA, also the PCA is a great group to run with.
That said you will get more track time with the PCA, also the PCA is a great group to run with.
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03-14-2016, 12:04 PM
#8
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You can get a built Spec Miata to have fun in for ~$10k, maybe less. You can get one capable of winning a national championship for $20k-$25k. Building from scratch will be ~$25k, and that includes some engine work. The real savings is in consumables. At set of RR's is ~$700. Brakes will cost less than half of what you spend on a SPB, and you will need to change them maybe once a year. You can get junkyard motors for $300-$800.
The SM of course lacks the straight-line speed of SPB (or virtually any other car on the track), but makes up for it in cornering ability. At times I miss the power of my SP996 when I'm out turning laps. When I'm racing, it is such close quarters, and so intense that I never ever miss the power. From what I see watching PCA races, SPB is the closest you can come to SM racing in PCA. But it still doesn't offer the consistently high car counts and close racing that we get in SM in Texas. We usually have 40+ SM's in a race. No matter what place you are in, you always have someone to race hard with. $/fun it is hard to beat Spec Miata.
The SM of course lacks the straight-line speed of SPB (or virtually any other car on the track), but makes up for it in cornering ability. At times I miss the power of my SP996 when I'm out turning laps. When I'm racing, it is such close quarters, and so intense that I never ever miss the power. From what I see watching PCA races, SPB is the closest you can come to SM racing in PCA. But it still doesn't offer the consistently high car counts and close racing that we get in SM in Texas. We usually have 40+ SM's in a race. No matter what place you are in, you always have someone to race hard with. $/fun it is hard to beat Spec Miata.
03-14-2016, 12:28 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
03-14-2016, 12:35 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
If you are hustling you can DE a SPB in most groups, but be prepared for people to not want to yield to you on track
They are fun cars, fairly reliable, cheap for a Porsche
Echo Greg's comments - the NorCal SPB crew is solid. I just joined the ranks and have made lots of new friends who are awesome and helpful guys
They are fun cars, fairly reliable, cheap for a Porsche
Echo Greg's comments - the NorCal SPB crew is solid. I just joined the ranks and have made lots of new friends who are awesome and helpful guys
03-14-2016, 12:50 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
I've been racing Spec Miata for 5+ years and have driven a Spec Boxster. I can relate to your question because I don't inherently like Miatas. I race one because they're fun to drive, cheap to maintain/fix, and there are a lot them around to race with.
I've toyed with the idea of Spec Boxster, but there is little opportunity to race it in my region. I can always take it to track days, but there is only 1 actual club race a year in my area. Other clubs will allow SPB's to run, but hardly any show up. With Spec Miata, there are MANY more opportunities to race, and the fields are much larger. Again, at least in my area.
You've already figured out that running costs are a lot higher with SPB than SM. You have to ask yourself, honestly, how much are you willing to spend on track expenses, and how much in unplanned repair costs can you stomach? The cost difference between a blown engine in a Miata and SPB is huge, same for transmissions. I can find spare Miata transmissions for $150; brake rotors are $25 each; brand new rims are $110; etc.
In your situation, I wouldn't necessarily buy either car. It sounds like your plan is to buy a stock street car and then eventually build it to a race car. While that sounds great in theory, it's the most expensive and time consuming way to get there. Plus, it also sounds like you're just starting out your track career. You may have wheel to wheel racing as a goal, but you might decide it isn't for you.
Instead, I would open up your list to any type of streetable track car. I would keep the Miata and Boxster on the list, but consider others as well. Buy a car that you actually like. Learn on that for a while. If you decide to go racing, buy a fully prepped race car rather than build it yourself.
Until you have a tow vehicle and trailer, one thing I don't like about the Miata and Boxster is limited cargo capacity unless you tow a tire trailer. Something like an E36 M3, just as an example, can carry a set of extra wheels and more tools.
I've toyed with the idea of Spec Boxster, but there is little opportunity to race it in my region. I can always take it to track days, but there is only 1 actual club race a year in my area. Other clubs will allow SPB's to run, but hardly any show up. With Spec Miata, there are MANY more opportunities to race, and the fields are much larger. Again, at least in my area.
You've already figured out that running costs are a lot higher with SPB than SM. You have to ask yourself, honestly, how much are you willing to spend on track expenses, and how much in unplanned repair costs can you stomach? The cost difference between a blown engine in a Miata and SPB is huge, same for transmissions. I can find spare Miata transmissions for $150; brake rotors are $25 each; brand new rims are $110; etc.
In your situation, I wouldn't necessarily buy either car. It sounds like your plan is to buy a stock street car and then eventually build it to a race car. While that sounds great in theory, it's the most expensive and time consuming way to get there. Plus, it also sounds like you're just starting out your track career. You may have wheel to wheel racing as a goal, but you might decide it isn't for you.
Instead, I would open up your list to any type of streetable track car. I would keep the Miata and Boxster on the list, but consider others as well. Buy a car that you actually like. Learn on that for a while. If you decide to go racing, buy a fully prepped race car rather than build it yourself.
Until you have a tow vehicle and trailer, one thing I don't like about the Miata and Boxster is limited cargo capacity unless you tow a tire trailer. Something like an E36 M3, just as an example, can carry a set of extra wheels and more tools.
03-14-2016, 01:20 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
The e36 sits in the middle between SM and SPB re. cost (purchase/build/maintenance) and is without a doubt the most satisfying of all of them to drive.
Agree with everyone else's comments (having driven all 3 of the aforementioned cars).
Agree with everyone else's comments (having driven all 3 of the aforementioned cars).
03-14-2016, 03:36 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
SPEC Miata (the 1990-2004) cars are not fun at DE and generally not streetable. Buying one of the later MX-5s, especially with a 2.5 MZR motor, totally different conversation.
Doesn't sound like you're going wheel to wheel racing, just to track days... correct?
Buy another performance based sports car, add safety equipment, and have fun. When you're fully addicted and want to go RACING (not DE), then rent before buying.
Doesn't sound like you're going wheel to wheel racing, just to track days... correct?
Buy another performance based sports car, add safety equipment, and have fun. When you're fully addicted and want to go RACING (not DE), then rent before buying.
03-14-2016, 06:58 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
One thing I didnt see mentioned by anyone is how well you fit in the car. I am 6'2" and have never sat in a Spec Miata I would have felt safe in racing. My helmet literally was resting on a cage bar in every car I have sat in. I only just fit in my SPB safely and even then its quite an origami scene for me to get in and strapped up with the helmet blower on. I have the seat sitting on the floor in the SPB and only just get enough head room. In a Spec Miata, I look at the top of the windshield