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Posting a link to the PCA video on Fuel & Oils. They highly recommend Driven DI40, even for non DI engines (rather than using DT40). Has anyone been following this practice?
I am about to switch from Millers Nano 5w40 to Driven DI40. I have used Millers Nano 5w40 for years and no question its been a great oil on and off the track. UAO oil tests have been great, as well as a borescope last year tells me my bores are in great shape on my a 2002 C2 with 61,500 miles and 14 years of DE and 21 years of street driving.
Spoke to Lake a few weeks ago on my latest oil test after driving 2400 miles from Chicago to Phila and back about what Driven oil he would recomend to improve viscosity but not loose the advantages of Millers Nano on and off the track. He suggested DI40.
I Just changed my oil using Millers 5w40 in prep for a track day this friday. I am going to test the oil after the event to get one more test in as a reference point. Then i will go to DI40 and start testing it as I get some miles on it. I plan on posting all the tests here on RL for a comparison.
Thanks for sharing - going to check out the video now.
I currently use Driven FR50 with very good UOA results and asked Lake about what he thought about Valvoline VR1 for track use. Seems like a good option as its formulated for that use case, I like the weight it comes in and is easily available everywhere at a good cost. His response was: "In regards to oil for future track days, I would not suggest swapping oils. Instead, just run the Driven DI40 all the time. We see very good results from that oil with folks that street drive and track their cars. The DI40 can be used in the M96 engines. We’ve seen great results with that in those engines for mixed street and track use. Of course, you can still use the FR50 as it is working well for you. Just don’t swap between different oils when you go to the track."
I need to double check, but I'm pretty sure Jake Raby says the dt40 is for non direct injection engines, specifically our 996s, and the DI is for the direct injection engines. PCA doesn't always get everything perfect.
I need to double check, but I'm pretty sure Jake Raby says the dt40 is for non direct injection engines, specifically our 996s, and the DI is for the direct injection engines. PCA doesn't always get everything perfect.
That's correct, however, it's not to say that things don't ever change and that you can't use the oil in an M96. PCA is simply the platform for the information. The information came from Lake Speed, the man that helped formulate DT40 so I'd trust him first. He also has the UOA results for the oil in non-DI engines. Jake also suggested running a Valvoline Restore Cummins Truck oil if you have bore scoring....
That's correct, however, it's not to say that things don't ever change and that you can't use the oil in an M96. PCA is simply the platform for the information. The information came from Lake Speed, the man that helped formulate DT40 so I'd trust him first. He also has the UOA results for the oil in non-DI engines. Jake also suggested running a Valvoline Restore Cummins Truck oil if you have bore scoring....
The Cummins Valvoline Restore oil has been discontinued. It was also a really good oil to use if an engine was poorly serviced and needed a good cleanup without resorting to use an engine flush product. The Restore oil was designed to de-carbon pistons and clean ring grooves to restore proper ring function. It was a unique product for sure.
The DI40 for sure can be used in place of the DT40, however it does cost a bunch more, and for that reason alone most will continue to use the DT40 instead. The biggest difference between the two is the DI40 has less detergency and a tad less ZDDP (to meet the ACEA C2/C3 standard), making it suitable for engines with particulate filters while also providing LSPI protection. Another big difference is the DI40 has no ester and has more mPAO with a higher HTHS viscosity, where DT40 does have a healthy dose of ester.
The Cummins Valvoline Restore oil has been discontinued. It was also a really good oil to use if an engine was poorly serviced and needed a good cleanup without resorting to use an engine flush product. The Restore oil was designed to de-carbon pistons and clean ring grooves to restore proper ring function. It was a unique product for sure.
The DI40 for sure can be used in place of the DT40, however it does cost a bunch more, and for that reason alone most will continue to use the DT40 instead. The biggest difference between the two is the DI40 has less detergency and a tad less ZDDP (to meet the ACEA C2/C3 standard), making it suitable for engines with particulate filters while also providing LSPI protection. Another big difference is the DI40 has no ester and has more mPAO with a higher HTHS viscosity, where DT40 does have a healthy dose of ester.
Charles - I learned about it from Lake as he recommended a short drain interval since my engine might have seen some questionable OCIs. All my wear metals look great, very low fuel dilution and overall great several UOA but she's still burning some oil at around 1l per 600mi. I wouldn't say it's been discontinued as I was able to get 3 gallons of it few weeks ago. It's something you'll need to order from a Cummins center so it's definitely not easily available and requires some leg work and calls to purchase. I spent about 20ish minutes on the phone ordering it. Actually, Valvoline should be releasing gen2 of the oil soon so they may be trying to completely get rid of gen1 before rolling it out. https://partner.valvolineglobal.com/...-blue-restore/
Good video, and love oil war threads lol. I am pretty OCD and researched the best oil for my 99 boxster forever. There lots of good oils out there, but between the folks that know the most about these engines and actual oil analysis is where the rubber meets the road. I have switched to Driven DT40 the last 3 years. I am a big moly proponent in oil, and driven has the most that I have seen. Since I could not find a recent virgin oil analysis on the current version of DT40, had one done myself which I will share........your welcome!
But Looking at my uoa sold me on it. No I dont drive a lot of miles, 2-3k max per year, but go on a lot of spirited mountain drives and will stick to at least annual changes. The first oil change on the far right was mobile one, the second I upgraded to Motul Excess, and the last two analysis are Driven DT40. As long as the wear metals continue to hold steady or decline with similar mileage figures, not sure why I would switch to anything else? I just dont pay much attention to the Blackstone comments, and love it how lake mentioned about their silicon comments, and why important to monitor it in these engines.
[QUOTE=Charles Navarro;18781215]The Cummins Valvoline Restore oil has been discontinued. It was also a really good oil to use if an engine was poorly serviced and needed a good cleanup without resorting to use an engine flush product. The Restore oil was designed to de-carbon pistons and clean ring grooves to restore proper ring function. It was a unique product for sure.
The DI40 for sure can be used in place of the DT40, however it does cost a bunch more, and for that reason alone most will continue to use the DT40 instead. The biggest difference between the two is the DI40 has less detergency and a tad less ZDDP (to meet the ACEA C2/C3 standard), making it suitable for engines with particulate filters while also providing LSPI protection. Another big difference is the DI40 has no ester and has more mPAO with a higher HTHS viscosity, where DT40 does have a healthy dose of ester.[/QUOTE
@Charles Navarro I have been using DT40 since I purchased my ‘99 996 about 1.5 years ago. I use my car for street, autocross and DEs. For us non chemist, what is the practical difference for the DI and DT oils and do you recommend it for my car?
The Cummins Valvoline Restore oil has been discontinued. It was also a really good oil to use if an engine was poorly serviced and needed a good cleanup without resorting to use an engine flush product. The Restore oil was designed to de-carbon pistons and clean ring grooves to restore proper ring function. It was a unique product for sure.
The DI40 for sure can be used in place of the DT40, however it does cost a bunch more, and for that reason alone most will continue to use the DT40 instead. The biggest difference between the two is the DI40 has less detergency and a tad less ZDDP (to meet the ACEA C2/C3 standard), making it suitable for engines with particulate filters while also providing LSPI protection. Another big difference is the DI40 has no ester and has more mPAO with a higher HTHS viscosity, where DT40 does have a healthy dose of ester.[/QUOTE
@Charles Navarro I have been using DT40 since I purchased my ‘99 996 about 1.5 years ago. I use my car for street, autocross and DEs. For us non chemist, what is the practical difference for the DI and DT oils and do you recommend it for my car?
I had this discussion of DT40 vs DI40 yesterday with Bill Alexander, Driven's Tribologist. He personally uses DT40 in all his personal vehicles and he still prefers the DT40 over the DI40 for a port injected engine. I personally have never run DI40 in a port injected engine, but I am going to put DI40 into my '06 GTI which current runs DT40 so I can do a comparison. I'll be sure to share the results.
A while back I did discuss DT40 vs DI40 if used on the track (although XP9 would be a much better choice for track use), and Lake felt that DI40 would be better suited than DT40 for track use. The only functional difference that I see making DI40 better than DT40 is that it has a higher HTHS viscosity (measured at 150C) which is beneficial when the engine is going to see higher operating temperatures as this is a direct measure of film thickness.
Yeah, higher viscosity is why Lake mentioned DI40 vs Millers 5w40 and the ability to do both street and track. Millers has a 10w50 oil which could help with viscosity, but I am going to give DI40 a shot, unless there is a more optimal choice. I would prefer to run one oil versus 2 different oils for street and track.
I had this discussion of DT40 vs DI40 yesterday with Bill Alexander, Driven's Tribologist. He personally uses DT40 in all his personal vehicles and he still prefers the DT40 over the DI40 for a port injected engine. I personally have never run DI40 in a port injected engine, but I am going to put DI40 into my '06 GTI which current runs DT40 so I can do a comparison. I'll be sure to share the results.
A while back I did discuss DT40 vs DI40 if used on the track (although XP9 would be a much better choice for track use), and Lake felt that DI40 would be better suited than DT40 for track use. The only functional difference that I see making DI40 better than DT40 is that it has a higher HTHS viscosity (measured at 150C) which is beneficial when the engine is going to see higher operating temperatures as this is a direct measure of film thickness.
I hope this answers your question.
For a direct injection engine, can DT40 be run? An engine builder I talked to recommended DT40 for direct injection instead of the DI40 and wondering what benefits/cons there would be to using DT40 in the MA1.70
For a direct injection engine, can DT40 be run? An engine builder I talked to recommended DT40 for direct injection instead of the DI40 and wondering what benefits/cons there would be to using DT40 in the MA1.70
Technically, yes, DT40 can be run in an engine with direct injection as long as the engine is normally aspirated. If turbo or supercharged, an oil formulated for LSPI protection is required, like DI40.
Technically, yes, DT40 can be run in an engine with direct injection as long as the engine is normally aspirated. If turbo or supercharged, an oil formulated for LSPI protection is required, like DI40.
I meant in the 3.8 turbo 997.2. Guessing I should get the DT40 out right away? Or would running it for a few thousand miles be fine? Had the engine builder change the oil and they used DT40 in a 997.2 turbo. Have only driven 30 miles since the oil change so want to make sure to fix if needed before really driving.
05-03-2023, 02:44 AM
Driven DI40 / DT40 & pca Video
