ProCoach

Plenty of drivers out there cornering "with excitement," "slapping the car." King Leh and Ayrton Senna, among them...

Having driven a ground effects 3-liter F1 car on track, they are responsive, for sure. Cars in Sir Jackie's day? Far less so. Cars today? Insane!

Great vid.

ProCoach

I also use this tool quite a bit and recommend it highly, especially when combined with automatically synced video in VBOX products and software, as well as MoTeC i2 Pro.

https://vboxmotorsport.co.uk/index.p...-gain-lap-time

AdamBrouillard

Not sure if you got a chance to read my response, but it was deleted. If you (or anyone else) wanted to read it feel free to send me a private message.

Veloce Raptor

Not my consensus
Hence the reason I mention it

mark kibort

Nothing Sir Jackie is in conflict to what peter or I said. its not the action of what we are referring too, it's how you do it. You can be smooth, highly aggressive, and standing on the nose at 100% threshold braking, and not "upset " the car. And the hands , depending on the car and set up, can be very calm.

mark kibort

let me contrast a little further, to my point in the last post.
same driver.... different car.

no paddle shifts and other aids.

ProCoach

These are two different skill executions, unrelated (even though you link them in your hypothesis). You and do either/or or both.

A period of instability is usually provoked by not respecting the platform and asking it to do something it's not capable of doing or accepting, almost always upon initial application.

Nearly always, there is sufficient time and distance AFTER this period to decide how, when and in what relationship to the steering input you want to "pick a speed" and release the brakes.

Most club drivers drop speed from the turn-in to at least the apex, but usually it's because they've released the brake prematurely, the nose has come up and they're not yet at the point where they can go to throttle.

Any significant throttle app that is premature can aggravate this and the vMin trendline can tell you a great deal.

I used to think striving for higher vMin was on the important end of the equation, but the data has proven me wrong. Higher initial vMins are often a result of premature release (distance) and delay throttle app (time) because of where the car is in the corner. Either way, they're a lap-time killer if the vMin lasts too long!

Witness Dan's superb E record traces at Watkins Glen, in that thread. His vMins are high, but more importantly, he ends and begins almost immediately his decel and accel. The "v-shape" in a speed versus distance graph. Super clean and his Bus Stop and Toe are terrific...

Bob Rouleau

Adam,

your post was deleted because you are advertising. In order to do so, you need to become a site sponsor. So, comments are fine, but references to your site and or books are not.

Best,

Matt Romanowski

I didn't watch the whole video he had posted, but did watch the beginning. I also found the video I believe he posted and I would not call either advertising. IMHO, the videos are informational and censoring them is a disservice to this thread.

Manifold

+1

I've watched the entire video, and I saw no commercial content in it. It's educational, directly pertinent to this thread, and freely available on youtube.

Since I have no affiliation (just an appreciative fan of Adam's work), perhaps I can post it, and mods can watch it in its entirety before judging whether deleting is justified:


The telemetry data starting at 4:49 is very revealing. The deep trailbraking and tighter line during corner entry enables the car to pull ahead of the car on the alternate line without trailbraking, which never catches back up.

TXE36

Very interesting and not something one could tell very easily without data.

-Mike

Manifold

You can see the same thing in Adam's analysis. In the example below, Vmin is significantly higher for yellow, but sector time is significantly lower for white.

AdamBrouillard

I never mention my books or site and don't use any sort of signature with links. I just linked to our free video that further explains the point I was making so I don't have to write a book here on the message boards.

If people want to read my books great, but I'm not here to sell them. I'm here because a few different people invited me to post here and I stayed because there are a lot of great discussions and I like talking about this stuff. I can't believe I went so long without knowing about this board actually. I'll avoid posting any links in the future though if that is the issue.

ProCoach

THIS is the reason why there is SO much learning opportunity with access to the most SIMPLE information.

You can read all the books you want, listen to all the paddock chatter you want, watch all the video you want, but in the end, you need to KNOW what you're doing to know WHERE to go...

Data is not a tattle tale, it's not judgmental, it's just WHAT happened.

The single most striking thing to me in the last decade plus of really focusing on club/track day/DE drivers is how inaccurate they are in remembering what they've done. It's not a problem, it's just normal.

That's where folks should start, by examining in detail what they're doing NOW, formulating a prime and alternate strategy for a fundamental skill execution in ONE section of the track and MEASURING.

If you don't have data, just listen to the engine note in the video. If it stays the same for a "count" (one-thousand, two-thousand, three-thousand..." or heaven forbid FALLS during the entry and middle of the corner, you have an opportunity for improvement!

It's not easy, but there are plenty of tools that can help...

ProCoach

Adam, VR, Matt, Jerry, myself and many others pay a small monthly fee to Internet Brands, and then we don't have to worry about this. Reach out, they'll take your money!

And it is a great community. Welcome!