Martin S.

This is the biggest "*****" in my driving technique armor, lack of trail braking. I reviewed a recent track experience with my driving coach...I just don't brake hard enough, late enough: I only had the brakes at .9 G, once....at the entrance to Turn 1 at Willow Springs raceway. ....and my trail braking, a revealed by the SOLO DL in Race Studio 2 is non-existent.


See: https://driver61.com/uni/trail-braking/

ProCoach

You ARE on the right track. But initial and sustained deceleration are disciplines separate and away from "trail braking."

I haven't read Scott's article, but DEFINE "trail braking." First...

Don't confuse leaving some brake pressure on after beginning to turn the wheel with "trail braking."

There's a reason why Skip Barber renamed "trail braking" in their curricula to "brake-turning."

DTMiller

Can you expand on the distinction? I know there is a difference but so many people use the terms interchangeably it would be nice to have a set vocabulary.

Martin S.

"There's a reason why Skip Barber renamed "trail braking" in their curricula to "brake-turning", Why didn't I think of that ?

It appears this book, Going Faster, could be of help:
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/aut...-/excerpt.html

I am going to order it...if I just learn one thing that can get me a second a lap, that's worth the $34.95

Thanks Coach Peter.

jdistefa

Do you want to

a) rotate the car, i.e. steer the car with the brake pedal

or

b) slow the car down with residual brake pedal pressure to V-min at some point beyond turn-in

333pg333

I think a) & b) would 'smudge' over each other at some point.

ProCoach

Yes! But you can do b) without achieving a).

Which is a good thing...

Most people think they're doing a) when all they're doing is b)...

Beantown Kman

Should be both, right? I thought the whole point of trail braking was to use all of the available grip of the tire in the transition from braking to cornering while also helping to rotate the car.

Pmorritt

The technique of trail breaking is mostly, but not exclusive to motorcycle riding/racing. On a MC front and rear brakes are controlled separately. After hard braking before entering the apex of a turn the rear brake is eased off, but not altogether. This keeps the front tire turning and causing the rear to slightly start sliding thus rotating the bike into the turn. It is a technique that takes years to learn and mostly for the track. It can be dangerous on the street.
In a car, When you hit the brakes before a corner, the weight of the car is shifted forwards, causing the front of the vehicle to squat. This drives the front tyres into the tarmac giving you more front-end grip. When you turn into the corner and release the brakes, the front unloads, reducing grip. This can cause the car to understeer, pushing you off line and costing you vital time.
Trail braking reduces this loss of grip by ensuring that the front tyres are generating the maximum amount of grip on the way into the corner. Instead of peeling off the brakes when entering the bend, you should keep light pressure on the brake pedal. This keeps weight over the front end and stops the car from pushing on.

TXE36

That would be me. Then I get confident and start doing a little bit of a), then more, then more, and right about when I'm really confident with a), I overdo it and loop the car or recover it and go back to just b) and redo the sequence.

I can do a) consciously, I'd like to it unconsciously. I"ve been doing b) since before coming to the track, having learned it on Grand Prix Legends.

-Mike

txhokie4life

thx, Mike...

This is probably me to a T as well...
This is a classic case of -- what I think I am doing and what I really am doing :-)

I know I've been doing it right in the RSR -- in the laps prior to just looping her :=)


Mike

jdistefa

Yup!

jdistefa

Smudge is a dangerous word.

Veloce Raptor

LMMFAO

The unsolved crime hahahahaha

MSR Racer

Does it not depend on the balance of the car and grip level though? i.e.steering with the brake or using it to rotate the car. In some cars, you can trail brake to the apex and there is enough grip and balance to rotate the car off brakes. Others don't rotate as much off the brakes.