hf1

I don't track or care for Vmin and only refered to it since it was mentioned in the posts before. Usually it's not productive to only focus on a single parameter in isolation. Even faster sector (turn) time means little if it comes at the cost of a lower exit speed ahead of a long straight.

TXE36

There is one part of my track memory that is 100% reliable. Whatever I remember is certainly not what happened.

It's uncanny.

-Mike

jdistefa

Indeed - that's just human beings in general. Our perceptions and memory are virtually designed to warp reality.

ProCoach

Hmmm... it's nearly impossible, and never recommended, to only focus on a single parameter in isolation, in a responsible and thorough driver performance review.

Rarely do you ever get a faster TURN sector time (although you frequently see an advantage under braking and into the turn) and not get a better exit. That's been my experience.

If drivers are going to break the corner into three parts, work BACK from the exit, FIRST!

Exit is least fraught and potentially most important.

Middle is what it is, dependent largely on the dominant (and most lengthy) radius selected. This is why use of the full width of the road on the way in, and the way out, is very important. Unless there is a compelling reason not to, usually having to do with compound corners or corner complexes.

Entry is potentially the most risky, but often that risk lessens as the braking execution improves in quality and the desired geometry is made clear.

Tracking vMins are EXTREMELY important to me, primarily because there are established "ratios," or relationships in percentage of vMin speeds between corners. These are well known and are particular to each specific track.

After compiling a huge database of winning, pro and record setting drivers in a variety of cars, if someone is slower in a particular corner, as a percentage of a delta established by the vMin of a faster corner, then there is opportunity for improvement!

An example of this would be that at Mid-Ohio, vMin for T13 (the left kink before entering the Carousel) SHOULD be the same as the vMin at T1, no matter what the car. If one is less than the other, work on the low one!

Like braking execution, corner entry speed is usually the product of what a driver THINKS is possible, NOT what the car is capable of...

RobertR1

This is me in a nutshell. I try to carry high mid corner speed and then realize I need to hold the throttle longer before I can exit.

Sorry for the shaky cam but this is a good example:

Also as I'm still learning I tend to come off the brakes too early which as you stated lifts the nose and makes this issue even worse.

hf1

Good point/approach. Thx!

This gets repeated a lot and I don't understand it. How does one explore a new track/car/setup without deliberately attempting to go BEYOND what the car is capable of at EVERY point on the track? Is there another way?

sbelles

Maybe but I've found time more then once, especially on a new track, by looking at just Vmins and Vmaxs of someone who is faster. Vmin certainly isn't all there is to corner segment speed but if I think that I can roll more speed into a corner then I usually can. Saves some time at moving it up incrementally.

ProCoach

Absolutely! And the foundation of comparing data and/or having someone more experienced/quicker drive the car to compare.

A great shortening of the learning curve, for sure, but personally, I just find that it's better to lay a good foundation, develop an incremental approach and then evaluate if there WAS an improvement.

ProCoach

Not really, but it's not "normal" for most people to "explore" in a truly vigorous way, at least in this sport and at this level.

Most folks achieve performance plateaus at various levels and get stuck there, sometimes for years. Then, they feel good one day, or they're following somebody quicker, or they're trying to chase someone down, or they simply blow it into a corner and, wonder of wonders, they MAKE IT through the corner! Then, the light bulb comes on and they say, "that's no big deal, I can do that again" and their relative performance improves.

Or, working with a variety of resources like data, intelligent video and coaches, they bolster their knowledge enough to feel better about pushing. And they do. And the time comes...

The most effective drivers I know at improving do just as you say. Seb, Rick, Cory and Spencer, among others, are prime examples. All the top drivers all do this.

They PUSH incrementally beyond their comfort levels, in all axis, at all points, but NOT ALL AT ONCE. And they generally do it to a plan. Every pro I've worked with does this. They go in a little hot, confident in the knowledge that they'll pick up an unwanted movement or motion early enough to fix it...

It's like Ross says, "become comfortable being slightly uncomfortable..."

mark kibort

That's a great lap... very nice! .. you need to downshift into turn 11-12 complex. you think you dont need the power/torque to get out of the turn, but actually you do, but more importantly, it gives you much more turn in stability as you approach and do the things we are talking about here in turn 11.
also , try downshifting at turn 5 for the same reasons. going into turn 2... you are trying a narrowed entry.. good idea, but you should try one modification. do more of a straight brake and then immediate trail brake so you can get to the apex, and stay there... it will allow for a sooner throttle application on the exit.

tell me about the car. interested to know the set up. 140mph by start finish.. wow... 450-500rwhp?

as a follow on to what peter said.... you dont do it all at once, but im a big believer in listening to your car at all points on the track. you can always find limits and dance around them to learn to control the car and not jump over the edge. do it in small bits.. the very high speed corners will be the most challenging (100mph and greater) but the slower ones take time to make laps and focus on late braking.. see where it puts you in respect to the desired line... follow what the car can do, not what you want the car to do. (eg. if you miss an apex, you just make sure you brake earlier next time.. or if the car has a big push around the turn. on exits feel the rear end of the car start to step out...correct, make a note and go easier on the throttle next time).
Most racers do this during qualifying. you lean what the car can do each session and use it to further improve , even during a race.

sbelles

I should add that I tend to employ that method more on corners with severe consequences where my self preservation instincts is are direct opposition to my ability to "explore in a truly vigorous way" I don't know where they came from, I didn't used to notice them so much.

RobertR1

I did start going down to 2nd for T11 and it certainly helped. I'm not technical but in layman terms going to 2nd helped turn the car into T11 and get it pointed better for 12 and 13. I'm sure there's a reason for that. Never downshifted for T5 though so that's certainly worth trying. I eventually stopped recording due to the great camera quality

Great points about T2, my "too quick of a lift off from braking" that I described to Pro Coach is very much a problem here. You're right that if I was doing trail braking, i'd have a faster and tighter line that gets me pointed and on the gas earlier. I did the same in T1 which ran the car a bit wide and I had to wait to get on the gas.

In all honesty, I can pretty much improve on every turn on that lap and in later days, I did, which is nice. In general though, I just try to manage the weight of the car. My vette doesn't like abruptness. It goes fastest when it's loaded up and settled into the corner so I try to drive in that manner. I've driven other cars that you can just throw around and be ok. You can do that to a degree here but the car will feel like it's sitting on top of the track vs digging into the tarmac. Driving like that will also make the car snap hard unexpectedly which I believe is how they get their reputation.

I think it was around ~450rwhp when I dyno'd it. The car is a stock 2011 z06 with z07 package running cup 2's. I had poly bushings done I believe right before this as the rubber ones had issues. The fastest I've gotten is 144mph on a different lap looking at some old times.