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Just for discussion sake...even with a "real rebuilt"(nickies, proper IMS, proper rod bolts, new chains and adjusters, and all the other goodies) m96 aren't you still subject to other inherent issues with these engines...water pump weakness, AOS weaknesses, to mention a few. I am not familiar with the LS engine but guess there are fewer things to sweat about. I'm torn between the RND engine replacement and an LS swap however have not really researched the last option if/when I need options. I would go with Jake but really wouldn't use half of what he would do for the engine and waiting a year would also be a drawback. Mine is starting the scoring symptoms although not verified as of yet.
You can talk it through with Jake but with his rebuild and recommended maintenance, your chance of failure becomes very very small.
There is no doubt that the LS1 is a great engine. I haven't heard of anyone getting all of the kinks worked out though. I think there are still a few bugs that you have to live with.
For me, the flat 6 is a big part of the experience. I like its sound, its feel and its power curve. I can't imagine dropping a chevy engine into the rear of my 996 and feeling good about it. But we all have to "hike our own hike."
M3, it takes a lot of character to own your issues. I respect the hell out of that. It's something this world could use a whole lot more of.
And gnat, thank you for the blessing of 8. Now that sounds like Nirvana to me.
Just for discussion sake...even with a "real rebuilt"(nickies, proper IMS, proper rod bolts, new chains and adjusters, and all the other goodies) m96 aren't you still subject to other inherent issues with these engines...water pump weakness, AOS weaknesses, to mention a few. I am not familiar with the LS engine but guess there are fewer things to sweat about. I'm torn between the RND engine replacement and an LS swap however have not really researched the last option if/when I need options. I would go with Jake but really wouldn't use half of what he would do for the engine and waiting a year would also be a drawback. Mine is starting the scoring symptoms although not verified as of yet.
When I build an engine the first 120K miles of scheduled service is exactly prescribed. This includes a water pump every 3 years, and an AOS every 40K miles, among other things. My internals still require some ancillaries to be replaced periodically, and for that, I give the owner a specific timeline.
As for scheduling goes, 3 months ago I pretty much put a hold on the schedule so we could get caught up, and reduce the wait times a bit. In that period I've only taken on a couple of jobs that we thought we could repair, but could not, and these ended up falling into the reconstruction timeline.
Having 36 purchasers in process at all times gets older for us, than the 1 year wait does for the owner. What it takes to keep up with this from admin, and logistics really sucks. Long story short, I am at 9.5 months right now for completion, and it can't get any faster than that, since the parts manufacturing, and machine work takes this amount of time. I hope to keep the list at 9.5 months for as long as possible.
Remember, if the car still runs and only has symptoms, I DO NOT need it for 9.5 months, or even a year (when the schedule is that far out). I ONLY need the car for the final 3.5 months of that 9 month period, because we start the engine the day the owner initiates the Proposal.
I have poor social skills, I'm working on it. The LS is a set it and forget it motor. and I really can't stand GM products, but man did they nail it with the LS platform
not really. I've pushed my fair share of LS corvettes into the paddock after arriving into pit lane billowing smoke. Another friend of mine lost a rod bearing in his LS powered RX7.
Slak/FSI: Appreciate your inputs. I really don't want a Frankinporsche(hope KCA doesn't read this!). Maybe I am still more susceptible to some of the "sky is falling" rhetoric on this forum than I should be after 2.5 years of ownership. I too love the flat six sound even with stock exhaust and can't help but smile when the variocam rush occurs. Perhaps I will give myself an early Christmas present by calling Jake...hhhmmm...3.8 does sound enticing...
not really. I've pushed my fair share of LS corvettes into the paddock after arriving into pit lane billowing smoke. Another friend of mine lost a rod bearing in his LS powered RX7.
they blow up also. but at 700hp. lol
Some friends and I have flogged 5-600hp Lsx's in ultra 4 buggy in the worst of conditions and they've taken it with a smile. We've also lost some too. However in general they will take that beating all day long and keep going. There are plenty of guys in the drag racing curcuit taking bone stock junk yard ls platforms, boosting them to the moon and they will last and entire season. Those guys are getting around 600hp out of those too. Being envolved in different arenas of motors sports for many, many years there are two motors that really stand out from my personal experience. The Ford 5.0(my personal favorite) and the GM ls platforms, those motors have proven time in and time out to be able to handle abuse to the extreme levels and survive. Yes they have their own problems but at the end of the day they are just flat out hard to kill.
If you go back to my impressive engine theatres, hands down the VW type 1 engine has taken the most abuse I have personal seen and kept on going. I lost the entire drivers side valance train during a race, with the engine spinning at race speeds. I stopped, pulled the push rods, and rockers out of the valuable cover, put it back together in the worst of conditions and the engine fired up and ran fine for the rest of the race.
Background on that engine. It was a tired 1600 dual port, in a 74 super beetle, that I built a full permiter frame, ifs front and rear suspension Baja bug that I ran in Off road endurance racing. The egine lost power and started knocking really bad. I thought lost it. I stopped, pulled the cover and found everything sitting in the cover. What had happened was the rocker cradle came loose and it spilled its guts. No torque wrenches, no feeler gauges, just a couple of hand tools, I put everything back together on the side of the course, adjusted the valves by "feel" and it started back up and ran like nothing happened. That engine ran for years and wouldn't die. In another race I lost the oil cooler, sent a James Bond smoke screen across the course, and lost most of my oil. I bypassed the cooler and the side of the track, and ran it low on oil for another 7 mile so before I could make it into a pit to top it off and again, it didn't care.
yea, I jacked that one something fierce. I've lost count on how many times I was called out on that, but can't say I don't deserve it. And FYI I love my 996, i think it's a fantastic car. I just can't get over the problems the m96 power plant has. Hence I would never put a dime into fixing it, I'd go with a transplant
This has already been said, but - once you can laugh at yourself, you become less deserving of the abuse. Not totally exonerated, but mostly.
As for the LS swap - this is an awesome solution if you meet all of the IF's...
* IF it can be registered legally;
* IF it's done well (and not a hack job/"some guy's" first try;
* IF the result isn't frankensteined in any way.
I also think this is a swap that is suitable for people who know what the crap they're doing. I have kept my '96 Corvette (LT1) engine alive and well, and I'm moderately 996 DIY capable, so I think I could probably keep on top of any issues that cropped up with either the German car or the US engine.
People seem to pitch an LSx conversion as the perfect solution - but how many people do you know who have done an engine swap / rebuilt their engine / otherwise got in WAY too far over their heads and wound up with a complete piece of crap only the salvage yard could love?
I _wish_ this was a 100% viable solution...I wish there was a straightforward way to ensure it could be registered in Kalifornia, and I wish there was a complete conversion kit with 100% everything you need except the donor engine. If a _solid_ kit was available and I knew I could get it refereed by BAR and smogged successfully, I would go this route and sell my used M96 to fund the project. But the prospect of doing the swap and then running into a BAR referee who decides to be a d*ck and/or is clueless of the rules regarding engine swaps, and winding up with a permanent project car that I can't register, make me reluctant to even consider it.
5CHN3LL: If I would go with the LS deal, I would ship car to RH in Vegas as they do in-house conversions. I have not priced that part of the equation. As you know here in this fly-over state there is no smog testing, yet. I dunno the Chevy deal is enticing but I have many questions about ancillaries like power steering, air conditioner, and several other issues that would have to be answered by RH.
1- Assume nothing, and quantify everything when engine building.
2- LN didn't have your crankshaft or any other components when doing the block work. Compression height and deck trim are calculated factors, but they must be checked. That's where rule 1 above comes in.
3- Engine building is never to be a social event. Groups of people have no place in engine building, and neither does beer. Back when I sold parts I'd get emails from buyers saying "the local club is coming over this weekend and we are going to build the engine, so I need the parts by Friday. This made me cringe. Guess what I'd come into on Monday morning most of the time? Guess what builds almost always had complications? When engine building you must have a certain mindset, and that doesn't occur when trying to entertain.
Here we assemble engines in "cells" with no other humans entering the work areas. There's no radios, or other music distractions, one builder per cell. When I build an engine I do my work in the middle of a 50 acre field, where my personal shop is located. I lock the door, turn all phones on "do not disturb" and get lost for the day.
11-24-2016, 09:32 PM
