ProCoach

Oh, it's amazing!

caymannyc

That course does look amazing, especially that uphill into corner 1 (since we're talking about braking, you can apply less brake going uphill because you have more downforce and grip ).

The best thing about race weekends are the SOUND, that unholy bone-shaking screech (well I've never heard the current V6s live but the v8s and 10s were monstrous). You also have all the other "fun" races like GP2/3, and depending on the schedule a Ferrari race or Porsche race. PLUS all the awesome team gear you can buy and only really find at those events.

caymannyc

I'd guess a steering input would be reflected with a corresponding movement of the "virtual steering wheel" in your "virtual cockpit". The shifter could be tricky but if you're using PDK who cares

More than "I racing", I think playing Need for Speed or something where you're driving through the city running from the police would be the most fun

nwGTS

Do you look at your hands or the shifter when racing on a track?
Not sure I understand the question.

winders

By "look" do you mean "focus on"? You don't have to focus on something to see it.

Do you understand how vision works? Do you understand how your brain works?

Once you understand some of those concepts, it becomes easy to see why augmented reality is easier for our brains to deal with than virtual reality.

How does this relate to my question? Our brains don't like it when visual information is missing. Even though we don't focus the shifter, our hands, or anything else we see in our peripheral vision, our brain expect those visual cues to be there. When they aren't, the experience is less real.

So I wonder if VR goggles are better than monitors for the most realistic virtual racing experience.

ProCoach

To use the benefit of the hill at Turn 1 at COTA, a driver can use MORE brake pressure because of the compression of the road.

Aero (downforce) has little to do with it. Aero is what it is on the car, but that aero helps at higher speeds no matter where you are (T11, T12, T20, for example), even on level or falling ground.

This allows longer periods at maximum speed, WOT and raises the speed average significantly between the apex of T20 and the apex at T1.

Because of the uphill compression, the car gains massive mechanical grip and can slow at up to 20-25% greater rate (instead of -1g decel, -1-.20 to 1.25g is possible, same car).

In order to leverage that compression, you need to push the pedal harder and get the benefit...

ProCoach

Having had the Rift now for a little while, and speaking to other pro racers who use this tool frequently, I don't know anyone who is going back to triples from the Rift... It's amazing...

Nizer

First exposure to rift. Seems like a lot of potential benefits from cost and space standpoint if they're as good as you say. Do you find users are more or less prone to the motion sickness common for newbie sim users?

nwGTS

Maybe the quote of the day.
I understand your reasoning now and maybe misunderstood your original comment. Disorientation is a concern when using immersive VR especially with controls that mimic the real world. The missing peripheral input is not a factor for either disorientation or game performance when a controller is used but it can be exacerbated when using 'equipment' like a bow, gun, sword, steering wheel, etc. Additionally, any lag between body motion input and VR output will be disorienting and can lead to VR sickness.

Oculus is the best at mitigating this and even with a gaming wheel and shifter the input and output lag is indiscernible. So, as Caymannyc put it, the virtual wheel and shifter are mimicking your inputs in realtime. Is it perfect? No. But it's nearly perfect and that's why we call it a sim.
If you haven't I highly recommend you try a Rift. There's a reason Zuckerberg paid 2 bills for the company.

caymannyc

I would think that because of the enhanced grip, you can achieve a faster turn velocity without getting into an oversteer/understeer situation and so you don't necessarily need to slow down using your brakes as much as say on a flat or downhill turn of the same entry angle. I've never driven on the course so of course I don't know.

caymannyc

I don't know about you, but I get motion sickness from racing (especially karts!), so maybe that's a more realistic element of the VR system

User 52121

Check the link in the bottom of my signature - we usually start up a weekly iRacing league once the weather starts to turn. In that thread is also lots of good info on sims (albeit spread out a bit...)

It already has.

I've been a strong proponent of VR in sim racing for the last several years, since the first development kits came out.

I see you're in Chicago.... I have a setup in my basement, and am working out some detail on putting some rigs together (likely still many months out.) You're welcome to stop by to try mine out some day.

It's all feel and muscle memory. As others have said in here already - do you need to SEE the shifter in the real car to shift? You likely don't even need to put an eyeball on the volume **** for the radio to turn it up, if you think about it...

+100

iRacing is definitely the best for actual racing. Car physics, track surfaces, etc. are 2nd to none.

A close 2nd is Assetto Corsa. Nowhere near the overall accuracy of iRacing BUT it still feels good, fun to play, AND they just released their Porsche Pack

Two other sims I personally am addicted to:
- Dirt Rally (rallycross is insane in VR)
- American/Euro Truck Simulator (yes, semi trucks, just driving around making deliveries... sounds mundane but I have killed HOURS in it....) I mean, what guy HASN'T wanted to try driving an 18-wheeler at some point in their life?


YES. To be continued below...

...continuing....

I've put a lot of people through my rig over the years. I had triples many years ago. Same software, same overall realism. Guys would run it, and come away with a, "Hey that's pretty neat! It's a lot like driving the real track!"

Some of those guys have come back after I got VR running. ALL of them have had the same reaction: "HOLY S***"

One guy hit the wall at Road America. Lost it and hit the wall at the top of T6 at Road America, and instinctively cringed, let go of the wheel, and pulled his arms into his chest.

VR does an amazing job fooling your brain into thinking you're really there.

I'm not sure that it's "more" prone. I've had 2 people get motion sickness in my system when it was still triple screens. One being my wife. She tried VR (we used it to learn Laguna Seca before traveling out to CA for Parade in 2014) and did NOT get sick. She spent a few hours in it with no issues.

So far the people that I've personally witnessed get sick in VR, was caused by improper settings. You have to get the eyepieces set to the correct spacing for your eyes (otherwise the view gets rendered incorrectly and it confuses your brain!). You also need pretty stout hardware, any sort of slow-downs cause delays in the view and can make you sick.

If any of you guys are in the Chicago area and are curious, shoot me a PM, always happy to demo my setup.

If you're on the east coast, there is a *fantastic* facility called Crimson Simulations in CT, he has several rigs set up (including VR and full motion platforms) to demo. Tell him "Jim from Chicago" sent you

hf1

I just can't do sims. Maybe I'm some freak of nature but I'm completely useless on the track without g-force inputs to my body. How do you straddle the grip limit in a sim? How do you even know where it is? With your eyes?

caymannyc

I don't think g-forces is the only (or the best) way to find "grip limit".


You can also rely on the level of tire noise and most importantly, when you start to feel the car get a bit loose, which you can tell by feedback to your steering wheel and the direction the front end of your car is pointing. If the steering wheel starts to slip and your car starts to wobble towards the inside, then you know you're in oversteer. If the steering wheel isn't moving and your car is heading towards the outside, you're understeering.

User 52121

Proper equipment.

It's tough to get accurate G-Force simulations, obviously. There are motion platforms out there. My *personal* opinion, I don't like them. I've always been able to sense a very sliiiight delay. With a monitor setup, your brain can adjust and tolerate it. With VR, any delays instantly translate into motion sickness for me.

BUT you can get a LOT of the "grip limit" through the steering wheel. You need to use something other than the toy wheels out there at Best Buy or Amazon. Logitech wheels, etc. are priced nice at $300 complete with pedals and shifter but you're losing out on a LOT of information.

There's a reason you can spend $5000 on a simulator steering wheel setup. The fidelity all comes through. Even stepping into a "mid-fi" wheel, like the Fanatec Club Sport (800-1000 all-in) is a HUGE step up from the Logitech stuff.

If you think of the simulator as a "toy" while you envision buying that MadCatz wheel at WalMart, it's tough to justify. If you start to look at it as a valid training device (plus an excellent time waster in the offseason), it becomes easier to swallow. The expensive equipment makes a BIG difference in the overall feel.