Search turned back on - please post here if there is an issue
04-14-2009, 10:15 PM
#91
Drifting
IB Adrian,
Here is a problem I found. The post in question appears on the 2nd page of the search results with "spoiler+wall", but using "spoiler+wall+decal" to narrow it down, causes it to fail and find NOTHING! NOTE: all 3 terms are in the title of the post in question...
um....
forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/993-forum/202236-spoiler-wall-decal-update.html
Thanks,
Keith
ps. IB really needs to get this search thing fixed and communicate to the RL users WHEN it will be fixed. Mass exodus is brewing and many of us may not renew our subscriptions if things continue this way. A little communciation will go a LONG way. Many don't even know you guys HAD to fix/change the search due to the size of the database. You'll go a long way towards passifying people if they know what is going on.
Placing a "FYI-How to use the new search" at the top of each forum for a while might go a long way. Again, communicate to the users: what happened, why it happened, what is being done to fix it and when it will be fixed. We're understanding folks IF we are clued in...otherwise, this is a ruthless bunch. ...as you might have noticed! Thanks!
__________________
Here is a problem I found. The post in question appears on the 2nd page of the search results with "spoiler+wall", but using "spoiler+wall+decal" to narrow it down, causes it to fail and find NOTHING! NOTE: all 3 terms are in the title of the post in question...
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : spoiler+wall+decal
The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : spoiler+wall+decal
forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/993-forum/202236-spoiler-wall-decal-update.html
try searching with "spoiler+wall" here in the 993 forum will give you better results....
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...al-update.html
(the dumb thing is "spoiler+wall+decal" (all terms in the post's title) DOESN'T work....paging the IB search gurus....
)
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...al-update.html
(the dumb thing is "spoiler+wall+decal" (all terms in the post's title) DOESN'T work....paging the IB search gurus....
)
Keith
ps. IB really needs to get this search thing fixed and communicate to the RL users WHEN it will be fixed. Mass exodus is brewing and many of us may not renew our subscriptions if things continue this way. A little communciation will go a LONG way. Many don't even know you guys HAD to fix/change the search due to the size of the database. You'll go a long way towards passifying people if they know what is going on.
Placing a "FYI-How to use the new search" at the top of each forum for a while might go a long way. Again, communicate to the users: what happened, why it happened, what is being done to fix it and when it will be fixed. We're understanding folks IF we are clued in...otherwise, this is a ruthless bunch. ...as you might have noticed! Thanks!
__________________
04-14-2009, 10:34 PM
#92
Administrator
Thread Starter
He Keith - thanks for reporting if you try the following search term "spoiler wall decal" (note, the lack of + signs) it seems to come up ok!
BTW - thankyou for your thoughts, with regards to the search, I had felt that we had communicated to the rennlist community regarding the reason for the replacement of the search (we had made announcements across the site that were up for a number of weeks regarding the change, and why it changed). Maybe this wasn't sufficient - I can create further communication if you feel it may be useful!
The FAQ is available on every forum page by clicking "FAQ" in the menu bar, and I have created a seperate link that comes up each time you login that directs users to the nuances of search.
BTW - thankyou for your thoughts, with regards to the search, I had felt that we had communicated to the rennlist community regarding the reason for the replacement of the search (we had made announcements across the site that were up for a number of weeks regarding the change, and why it changed). Maybe this wasn't sufficient - I can create further communication if you feel it may be useful!
The FAQ is available on every forum page by clicking "FAQ" in the menu bar, and I have created a seperate link that comes up each time you login that directs users to the nuances of search.
04-14-2009, 10:40 PM
#93
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I searched "HFS K27" and got this thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turb...3700-rpms.html
HFS is nowhere to be found.
Also what if I want a specific order of words? Typically "HFS K27" would only find threads where HFS and K27 were present in that order with a space...i.e. an exact string.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turb...3700-rpms.html
HFS is nowhere to be found.
Also what if I want a specific order of words? Typically "HFS K27" would only find threads where HFS and K27 were present in that order with a space...i.e. an exact string.
04-14-2009, 10:43 PM
#94
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW - thankyou for your thoughts, with regards to the search, I had felt that we had communicated to the rennlist community regarding the reason for the replacement of the search (we had made announcements across the site that were up for a number of weeks regarding the change, and why it changed). Maybe this wasn't sufficient - I can create further communication if you feel it may be useful!
When the search 'improvements' were really sucking, your communications were lacking. Maybe you thought things were fixed. I don't think anyone on here thinks you are done yet. If you are done, you should tell us that we are stuck with this junk. Hopefully you are still trying to make it work normally and correctly. Using quotes is a work-around, not a real solution.
04-15-2009, 01:26 AM
#95
Burning Brakes
The first step to fix this mess is to post some reasonable instructions on how to do a basic search with a few terms. I've looked a bit (and I really shouldn't have to look at all) and can't find anything. Do you quote? Do you use + signs? Lay it out there.
Oh..and duh...the search should work.
I've certainly held off any paying membership due, in part, to the really poor search function and the long time it's taken to resolve. If it's resolved...
Oh..and duh...the search should work.
I've certainly held off any paying membership due, in part, to the really poor search function and the long time it's taken to resolve. If it's resolved...
04-15-2009, 03:33 PM
#96
Administrator
Thread Starter
So I searched "HFS K27" and got this thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turb...3700-rpms.html
HFS is nowhere to be found.
Also what if I want a specific order of words? Typically "HFS K27" would only find threads where HFS and K27 were present in that order with a space...i.e. an exact string.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turb...3700-rpms.html
HFS is nowhere to be found.
Also what if I want a specific order of words? Typically "HFS K27" would only find threads where HFS and K27 were present in that order with a space...i.e. an exact string.
One of the changes with this search (for good or for bad) is that if there is an "S" on the end of a word, it will assume it to be a plural, and it will elimiate the "S" and search for all terms using the core word (i.e. in this case "HF").
Its great in the instance of someone searching "Porsches oil issues", but in the example above, less useful and possibly a hinderance.
I think your initial communications were fine.
When the search 'improvements' were really sucking, your communications were lacking. Maybe you thought things were fixed. I don't think anyone on here thinks you are done yet. If you are done, you should tell us that we are stuck with this junk. Hopefully you are still trying to make it work normally and correctly. Using quotes is a work-around, not a real solution.
When the search 'improvements' were really sucking, your communications were lacking. Maybe you thought things were fixed. I don't think anyone on here thinks you are done yet. If you are done, you should tell us that we are stuck with this junk. Hopefully you are still trying to make it work normally and correctly. Using quotes is a work-around, not a real solution.
Seperately, on the search issue, I have created a basic walkthrough to assist users:
https://rennlist.com/forums/faq.php?...#faq_searchfaq
We have also been able to narrow down a number of issues with search that are going to be addressed in an update to the engine later this week. Development on the search will continue above and beyond this, when we are able to identify issues, diagnose them and fix them.
In addition to that we have been able to work on the development of our own search engine seperately to be available in conjunction with the release of the next version of vBulletin - 4.0 (the software Rennlist uses). This will be available we anticipate mid July. Because Rennlist is part of our network it will be one of the first sites to get the "gold release" of vBulletin 4.0.
Up until then, we will continue to attempt to work on issues associated with search.
Thanks for your note - if I can, I might further explain our issue.
As you probably noticed, Rennlist was getting slower and slower, we were throwing substantial amounts of hardware at the database, with no direct results. We were able to narrow the issue down to it being search.
As the database grew and grew search strings like "911" or "wheels" across the entire forum would crash the site at peak load.
Sadly this is a result of the standard vBulletin search, in that it doesn't scale well for very large sites like Rennlist.
Faced with little choice our tech team was able to build a version of search based off the "Sphinx" search engine (it powers Craigslist amongst other large databases) within a week that could replicate the vBulletin search (for the most part), which if only on a personal level, I think is a pretty impressive feat. (we had spent about 18 months trying to develop a Lucene based engine with no success
)
Sadly a lot of the nuances with Sphinx are different than with the standard vBulletin type search, it makes the user experience substantially different, and since its release we have had a developer concurrently trying to replicate a number of the flaws (or differences with the user experience that were not supported originally or supported differently), diagnose them and fix them (adding functionality like "relevancy" as well as a number of other items), in addition this is the gentleman that has "pulled apart" Sphinx to develop the engine for vBulletin 4.0.
Anyway, the crux of the search concern.
We are continuing to work on improving search, both in the mean time (based on feedback) and permanently with more functionality (with the implementation of the next version of vb 4.0).
Adrian
https://rennlist.com/forums/faq.php?...#faq_searchfaq
We have also been able to narrow down a number of issues with search that are going to be addressed in an update to the engine later this week. Development on the search will continue above and beyond this, when we are able to identify issues, diagnose them and fix them.
In addition to that we have been able to work on the development of our own search engine seperately to be available in conjunction with the release of the next version of vBulletin - 4.0 (the software Rennlist uses). This will be available we anticipate mid July. Because Rennlist is part of our network it will be one of the first sites to get the "gold release" of vBulletin 4.0.
Up until then, we will continue to attempt to work on issues associated with search.
Thanks for your note - if I can, I might further explain our issue.
As you probably noticed, Rennlist was getting slower and slower, we were throwing substantial amounts of hardware at the database, with no direct results. We were able to narrow the issue down to it being search.
As the database grew and grew search strings like "911" or "wheels" across the entire forum would crash the site at peak load.
Sadly this is a result of the standard vBulletin search, in that it doesn't scale well for very large sites like Rennlist.
Faced with little choice our tech team was able to build a version of search based off the "Sphinx" search engine (it powers Craigslist amongst other large databases) within a week that could replicate the vBulletin search (for the most part), which if only on a personal level, I think is a pretty impressive feat. (we had spent about 18 months trying to develop a Lucene based engine with no success
)Sadly a lot of the nuances with Sphinx are different than with the standard vBulletin type search, it makes the user experience substantially different, and since its release we have had a developer concurrently trying to replicate a number of the flaws (or differences with the user experience that were not supported originally or supported differently), diagnose them and fix them (adding functionality like "relevancy" as well as a number of other items), in addition this is the gentleman that has "pulled apart" Sphinx to develop the engine for vBulletin 4.0.
Anyway, the crux of the search concern.
We are continuing to work on improving search, both in the mean time (based on feedback) and permanently with more functionality (with the implementation of the next version of vb 4.0).
Adrian
04-15-2009, 10:19 PM
#97
Drifting
He Keith - thanks for reporting if you try the following search term "spoiler wall decal" (note, the lack of + signs) it seems to come up ok!
BTW - thankyou for your thoughts, with regards to the search, I had felt that we had communicated to the rennlist community regarding the reason for the replacement of the search (we had made announcements across the site that were up for a number of weeks regarding the change, and why it changed). Maybe this wasn't sufficient - I can create further communication if you feel it may be useful!
The FAQ is available on every forum page by clicking "FAQ" in the menu bar, and I have created a seperate link that comes up each time you login that directs users to the nuances of search.
BTW - thankyou for your thoughts, with regards to the search, I had felt that we had communicated to the rennlist community regarding the reason for the replacement of the search (we had made announcements across the site that were up for a number of weeks regarding the change, and why it changed). Maybe this wasn't sufficient - I can create further communication if you feel it may be useful!
The FAQ is available on every forum page by clicking "FAQ" in the menu bar, and I have created a seperate link that comes up each time you login that directs users to the nuances of search.
Adrian,
Maybe I just missed the communication, but I don't think I'm alone...
IF you search with:
"spoiler wall decal"
-narrows results ok, but it has to be exactly that word order. Not really useful if you don't know the exact word order.
spoiler wall decal
-Keep in mind the title of the thread I'm looking for was "Spoiler wall decal update"..... No quotation marks returns a huge list of unrelated things. The first returned thread has exactly 1 matching word in it..... "wall". 2nd thread has NO matching words... 3rd thread has 1 word "wall"...again. First search results are very recent threads, which seem to get undue priority in this new search. And I can't even find the desired thread now in this list! Or at least its not in the first 3 pages...
spoiler+wall
-desired thread is on 2nd page. This is how I found it yesterday...via manual search....
Back to where I started....the search really doesn't work yet....
04-16-2009, 05:53 PM
#98
Administrator
Thread Starter
Keith, just to clarify, are you searching to return your results by relevance?
I don't in any way wish to be indignant, and I hope I don't come across as such, but I am having issues replicating the concern you have outlined, and to fix the oil leak, I need to know where the oil is dripping from.
Here is what I searched - for spoiler wall decal across every Rennlist forum, and I had elected to search for results to return by relevancy (you can make this your default advanced search preferency by saving it at the bottom)
The results I got (note, I searched without the quotation marks this time) are below as well.
I might also note - that my positive resuls may be the result of an update that was added to the site in the past few hours, if your results differed from this (despite searching in the same manner) I apologize, and hope that you can take heart in the fact that it should now be improved
I don't in any way wish to be indignant, and I hope I don't come across as such, but I am having issues replicating the concern you have outlined, and to fix the oil leak, I need to know where the oil is dripping from.
Here is what I searched - for spoiler wall decal across every Rennlist forum, and I had elected to search for results to return by relevancy (you can make this your default advanced search preferency by saving it at the bottom)
The results I got (note, I searched without the quotation marks this time) are below as well.
I might also note - that my positive resuls may be the result of an update that was added to the site in the past few hours, if your results differed from this (despite searching in the same manner) I apologize, and hope that you can take heart in the fact that it should now be improved
04-21-2009, 01:34 PM
#99
Banned
Sorry if this sounds harch but we have been waiting MONTHS for a working search and despite the recent promises of an upgrade it STILL DOESN'T WORK!
I can't believe that anyone actually tested this and declared it to be working.
For one thing, the boolean searches are still not working (we get an OR instead of an AND), and then there are threads which exist but are just not found at all.
I don't know what else I can say - it was working fine for years until IB changed things. PLEASE FIX THIS!!
I can't believe that anyone actually tested this and declared it to be working.
For one thing, the boolean searches are still not working (we get an OR instead of an AND), and then there are threads which exist but are just not found at all.
I don't know what else I can say - it was working fine for years until IB changed things. PLEASE FIX THIS!!
04-21-2009, 07:00 PM
#101
Banned
Adrian, EVERY search I try fails.
Example: there is one thread I started myself in OT.
- If I try a simple search using a word from the title, it isn't listed.
- If I try a simple search using a word from the text, it isn't listed.
- If I try an advanced search using a word from the title, it isn't listed.
- If I try an advanced search using a word from the text, it isn't listed.
It also makes no difference whether I add myself as author to the fields in advanced search.
It couldn't be more broken
Example: there is one thread I started myself in OT.
- If I try a simple search using a word from the title, it isn't listed.
- If I try a simple search using a word from the text, it isn't listed.
- If I try an advanced search using a word from the title, it isn't listed.
- If I try an advanced search using a word from the text, it isn't listed.
It also makes no difference whether I add myself as author to the fields in advanced search.
It couldn't be more broken
04-21-2009, 07:26 PM
#102
Banned
Finally found the thread I was referring to: https://rennlist.com/forums/general-...ing-photo.html
Try searching for 'scandinavian', for example. Doesn't find it, and that word is in both title and post.
Try searching for 'scandinavian', for example. Doesn't find it, and that word is in both title and post.
04-21-2009, 09:29 PM
#103
Administrator
Thread Starter
I searched for "Scandinavian" and found it on the following search on the second page (and I think I did a pretty broad search)
I don't wish to come across as condescending, but did follow the FAQ giving the tips on the best ways to search by chance?
I would really like to ensure we "fix" whats broken - but I trust you understand that we do need to know what is broken in order to fix it.
Thanks,
Adrian
I don't wish to come across as condescending, but did follow the FAQ giving the tips on the best ways to search by chance?
I would really like to ensure we "fix" whats broken - but I trust you understand that we do need to know what is broken in order to fix it.
Thanks,
Adrian
04-21-2009, 09:41 PM
#104
Banned
Adrian, I searched for this at least 10 times, trying the 'search this forum' button AND the advanced search (basically trying every variation I could think of), and going through the pages of results and I can assure you the thread was not there on any of the searches.
There is nothing in the (useless) FAQ which I haven't tried, or is relevant here.
I tried it once more just in case but nope, thread still not listed in search results (4 pages).
There is nothing in the (useless) FAQ which I haven't tried, or is relevant here.
I tried it once more just in case but nope, thread still not listed in search results (4 pages).
04-21-2009, 09:52 PM
#105
Administrator
Thread Starter
Given how old the thread is, did you try changing the date ranges?
Bear in mind the search, both old and new arranges threads based on relevancy somewhat by its date.
I saw that the thread was 6 years old, and searched inversely by post date because of this, that was why I was able to get it on page number 2!
Unfortunately the term "Scandinavian" will be used with reasonable frequency, and the search has to scour around 6.5million individual messages for it, so the chances are it will return a lot of results that contain "Scandinavian" within it, and because that thread is from over 6 years ago, it will unfortunately be at the bottom!
There are other options for you in such an instance too - for example, the phrase "Scandinavian Rennlist" (search with quotation marks) will obviously be used a lot less in those than the word "Scandinavian", and I did a basic search for "Scandinavian Rennlist", it returned 8 results for me, of which result number 8 was your thread (because it was the oldest).
I hope that helps,
Adrian
Bear in mind the search, both old and new arranges threads based on relevancy somewhat by its date.
I saw that the thread was 6 years old, and searched inversely by post date because of this, that was why I was able to get it on page number 2!
Unfortunately the term "Scandinavian" will be used with reasonable frequency, and the search has to scour around 6.5million individual messages for it, so the chances are it will return a lot of results that contain "Scandinavian" within it, and because that thread is from over 6 years ago, it will unfortunately be at the bottom!
There are other options for you in such an instance too - for example, the phrase "Scandinavian Rennlist" (search with quotation marks) will obviously be used a lot less in those than the word "Scandinavian", and I did a basic search for "Scandinavian Rennlist", it returned 8 results for me, of which result number 8 was your thread (because it was the oldest).
I hope that helps,
Adrian