Help with speeding ticket
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario
Can't offer any useful advice to the OP, but can clarify that the above isn't exactly how it works. Demerit points have nothing to do with your insurance & rates - at all.
Insurance sees two things, and two things only: minor convictions (1km to 49km per hour over the limit, plus any another minor moving violation regardless of demerit points for the offence), and major convictions (50km/h+, other major moving violations ie careless/reckless driving, etc...). Demerit points are just used by the province to determine when to send you a warning letter, then when to yank your license.
Getting a ticket reduced to no points / reduced fine, etc doesn't save you from a premium hike. Still a conviction. You need to get the charge dropped completely, which is why I believe most of these ticket doctor companies are a complete waste of money. Sure they may get your ticket reduced, but unless they get the charge completely thrown out you're still subject to your insurance company ******** you.
10km/h over the limit will affect your insurance if they pull your history @ renewal time, the exact same as getting pegged for 49km/hr over the limit. My sub-$100 ticket (with no demerit points) cost me my 20% conviction-free discount for 3 years, which in real dollars equates to $1500 plus the cost of the original ticket
Insurance sees two things, and two things only: minor convictions (1km to 49km per hour over the limit, plus any another minor moving violation regardless of demerit points for the offence), and major convictions (50km/h+, other major moving violations ie careless/reckless driving, etc...). Demerit points are just used by the province to determine when to send you a warning letter, then when to yank your license.
Getting a ticket reduced to no points / reduced fine, etc doesn't save you from a premium hike. Still a conviction. You need to get the charge dropped completely, which is why I believe most of these ticket doctor companies are a complete waste of money. Sure they may get your ticket reduced, but unless they get the charge completely thrown out you're still subject to your insurance company ******** you.
10km/h over the limit will affect your insurance if they pull your history @ renewal time, the exact same as getting pegged for 49km/hr over the limit. My sub-$100 ticket (with no demerit points) cost me my 20% conviction-free discount for 3 years, which in real dollars equates to $1500 plus the cost of the original ticket
I thought anything less than 15 over didn't count to insurance?
0-15 - like a parking ticket. no demerit points
16-50 - "minor offence". demerit point, counts to insurance
50+ - "major offence". demerit points. counts to insurance. equal to 3 minor offences
Could be wrong here, but that's how my insurance company explained it to me a few years ago.
The issue here is that either:
a) you were going 87 and just didn't realize it, or
b) the cop is doing something really sketchy
Either way, I'd just suck it up and pay the fine for 10 over...
0-15 - like a parking ticket. no demerit points
16-50 - "minor offence". demerit point, counts to insurance
50+ - "major offence". demerit points. counts to insurance. equal to 3 minor offences
Could be wrong here, but that's how my insurance company explained it to me a few years ago.
The issue here is that either:
a) you were going 87 and just didn't realize it, or
b) the cop is doing something really sketchy
Either way, I'd just suck it up and pay the fine for 10 over...
Demerit points can also be important if you make a living relying on your driver's license.
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario
From the information that you provided, there should be a letter "R" on your ticket and if you decide to cross examine the police officer on a witness stand, there's very a high possibility that the prosecutor will amend the original charge. Receiving a disclosure does not mean that the police officer will be present at trial, it's the prosecutor's legal duty to provide you the evidence that was made against you.
There's no need to get another paralegal and certainly not worth getting a lawyer for this, as it's a minor offence. With your other speeding ticket and the charge already got reduced on this ticket, I would not recommend you to challenge the police officer at trial. If you truly believe that you did not commit the offence, explore the option of filing a 4F form (depending on what X-Copper asked for in the disclosure and usually paralegals don't do a good job at asking for disclosures
). If your trial date is more than 10 months away from the offence date, you can file an 11b form.
There's no need to get another paralegal and certainly not worth getting a lawyer for this, as it's a minor offence. With your other speeding ticket and the charge already got reduced on this ticket, I would not recommend you to challenge the police officer at trial. If you truly believe that you did not commit the offence, explore the option of filing a 4F form (depending on what X-Copper asked for in the disclosure and usually paralegals don't do a good job at asking for disclosures
). If your trial date is more than 10 months away from the offence date, you can file an 11b form.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,510
Likes: 1,640
From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
Sorry to hear this George but here is how I read it and what you should have done .
Muskoka is correct with the points but has nothing to do with Insurance rates. You will be convicted with a minor speeding ticket .
Depending on insurance I would have eaten that one ticket as Danny said and moved on . Most companies will leave you alone with one ticket or a minor bump ( probably less than the 282 you paid ) .
They can definitely reinstate the original charge . But would still be on your ticket as one minor infraction for the insurance company but if found guilty you would pay a higher fine.
Defending yourself the way you described I think you will definitely lose . they wont drop the charges . You have/had an opportunity to speak to the prosecutor when you got the ticket , its an option . But i will tell you they know the cop already reduced it and will not do anything.
If you were an old lady in a civic maybe .. But they see it as a dude in an Italian sports car .. your doomed.
if you are going to fight for such a small thing you are going to need a real traffic lawyer . This will not make it economically feasible even of you include an insurance hike.
Muskoka is correct with the points but has nothing to do with Insurance rates. You will be convicted with a minor speeding ticket .
Depending on insurance I would have eaten that one ticket as Danny said and moved on . Most companies will leave you alone with one ticket or a minor bump ( probably less than the 282 you paid ) .
They can definitely reinstate the original charge . But would still be on your ticket as one minor infraction for the insurance company but if found guilty you would pay a higher fine.
Defending yourself the way you described I think you will definitely lose . they wont drop the charges . You have/had an opportunity to speak to the prosecutor when you got the ticket , its an option . But i will tell you they know the cop already reduced it and will not do anything.
If you were an old lady in a civic maybe .. But they see it as a dude in an Italian sports car .. your doomed.
if you are going to fight for such a small thing you are going to need a real traffic lawyer . This will not make it economically feasible even of you include an insurance hike.
Last edited by theiceman; Feb 10, 2017 at 03:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 8
From: Burlington, Canada
Thanks Clive, appreciate. The ticket is indeed marked R (reduced) and the officer told me 87 kms/hr in that zone would bring 4 Demerit points and I forgot how many dollars. I had a lengthy discussion with him and I am convinced I was able to persuade him I did not do it on purpose and quite frankly I did not know I reached such a speed (how many of us actually check their speed from standstill when turning left or right?). This is why he reduced it from 87 to 60. I was still convinced it is not technically possible and will be able to demonstrate that in court but then made some calculations the other day and unfortunately found out it was way possible to reach that speed and still stop no problem, all in 200 meters. So I guess I'll ask X-Copper to drop the charge and I'll pay the 40 dollars fine. Can't even say I'll be more careful next time, did not realize it can get so fast so quick and I did not floor it, as I said engine was cold, had driven maybe less than 500 meters. But the law of physics is against me and all the logic from the forum is also pointing into one direction. Thank you very much guys, as always much appreciated !
George
George
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,510
Likes: 1,640
From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
it would only help convict him as it carries no evidence he was not speeding. Only show an aggressive drive for that short distance that he didn't realize. I have no doubt what the laser caught was true. The issue is the cop writing a ticket for a 100 foot indiscretion.
I guess he wanted to win the microwave back at the station.
I guess he wanted to win the microwave back at the station.
Drifting
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 315
it would only help convict him as it carries no evidence he was not speeding. Only show an aggressive drive for that short distance that he didn't realize. I have no doubt what the laser caught was true. The issue is the cop writing a ticket for a 100 foot indiscretion.
I guess he wanted to win the microwave back at the station.
I guess he wanted to win the microwave back at the station.
As it turns out he's an oblivious maniac and just had the bad luck of getting nabbed. Dashcam won't save you there.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 8
From: Burlington, Canada
I am not a maniac not any more than anyone else driving a car. I simply did not realize the car can get to that speed so fast. And I was in no hurry. And I am no longer 20 trying to impress anyone,
George
George
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Drifting
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And I'm not suggesting for a second that all the rest of us aren't right there with you.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Ontario, Canada 2011 C4S
You nailed it on the head.......these are not the floating luxury suv's but high performance sports cars that lull you into a sense going slower than you actually are. 385 hp in my chrysler aspen feels way different than the 385 in my 911
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
This was an interesting read and I'm surprised at how many people refuse to fight their own tickets. X Copper usually does what anyone can do on their own, go speak to the prosecutor and try to negotiate the ticket down. If that doesn't work, you can go before a judge, question the police officer and explain your rationale.
In this case, I think it's important to ask the officer more procedural questions and find a fault there rather than try to prove that your car couldn't reach the speed it did. Here are a few questions I would want clarified:
1. Where was the officer when you were clocked?
2. What were the traffic conditions?
3. What was the weather like?
4. Was the radar calibrated? When was the radar calibrated and by whom?
5. How did the officer identify your car as speeding?
6. Was he shooting randomly?
7. Does he normally just shoot radar at high end cars?
8. Ask the officer to describe where you were coming from and how they identified your car?
Questions like these will more often than not bring to light errors in the officers conduct or procedures. They write many tickets and can easily mix up facts when you're questioning them. It's these errors that cast doubt on how the officer operated.
The fact that he identified your car as being "fast'' because it's a maserati shouldn't have anything to do with the ticket yet he thought it was important to mention this. Why?
In this case, I think it's important to ask the officer more procedural questions and find a fault there rather than try to prove that your car couldn't reach the speed it did. Here are a few questions I would want clarified:
1. Where was the officer when you were clocked?
2. What were the traffic conditions?
3. What was the weather like?
4. Was the radar calibrated? When was the radar calibrated and by whom?
5. How did the officer identify your car as speeding?
6. Was he shooting randomly?
7. Does he normally just shoot radar at high end cars?
8. Ask the officer to describe where you were coming from and how they identified your car?
Questions like these will more often than not bring to light errors in the officers conduct or procedures. They write many tickets and can easily mix up facts when you're questioning them. It's these errors that cast doubt on how the officer operated.
The fact that he identified your car as being "fast'' because it's a maserati shouldn't have anything to do with the ticket yet he thought it was important to mention this. Why?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,510
Likes: 1,640
From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
Anyone who has met George would understand he is certainly not a maniac. That's why I truly believe he just pulled out and was truly shocked when the cop nabbed him
But back to the cam. Even if he wasn't speeding. It would not help. Unless it shows sped and was calibrated. Just like the radar gun.
But back to the cam. Even if he wasn't speeding. It would not help. Unless it shows sped and was calibrated. Just like the radar gun.
