Cops
01-28-2013, 02:46 PM
#16
Pocket Sand
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Ok, I'll bite...enlighten us. What's your security guard going to be doing?
Does everyone think this "gross inefficiency" is because of the average constable? Or, do you think there is too much management in Police Services?
Just curious.
Toronto Police Service Rank Profile for Uniform Positions Permanent Full-Time Employees
As of December 31, 2005 (Associum Consultants final report on TPS Employment Systems Review of Uniform Promotional Process, Oct. 2006):
Chief of Police 1
Deputy Chief of Police 4
Staff Superintendent 6
Superintendent 22
Staff Inspector 24
Inspector 35
Senior Officers 92
Staff Sergeant 162
Detective Sergeant 109
Sergeant 451
Detective 457
Sergeant/Staff Sergeant 1, 179
Constable 3,984
TOTAL
5,255
Wow....in 2005 there were 3,984 constables being supervised by 2,343 managers (Sergeants to Staff Superintendents - didn't include the civilian senior officer rank). That seems high to me.
Does everyone think this "gross inefficiency" is because of the average constable? Or, do you think there is too much management in Police Services?
Just curious.
Toronto Police Service Rank Profile for Uniform Positions Permanent Full-Time Employees
As of December 31, 2005 (Associum Consultants final report on TPS Employment Systems Review of Uniform Promotional Process, Oct. 2006):
Chief of Police 1
Deputy Chief of Police 4
Staff Superintendent 6
Superintendent 22
Staff Inspector 24
Inspector 35
Senior Officers 92
Staff Sergeant 162
Detective Sergeant 109
Sergeant 451
Detective 457
Sergeant/Staff Sergeant 1, 179
Constable 3,984
TOTAL
5,255
Wow....in 2005 there were 3,984 constables being supervised by 2,343 managers (Sergeants to Staff Superintendents - didn't include the civilian senior officer rank). That seems high to me.
Anyhow, moving on to the broader scope of the topic, some common themes in this thread:
- Rising cost of policing.
- Dissatisfaction with the way the resources are used.
- Government/Public Agencies are run like a business.
Run like a business you say? Ok, lets start by reviewing compensation and making sure it's in line with stakeholder interests (buzzwords, yeah!). Everyone from the Chief on down.
Some low hanging fruit? Officers get a minimum of 3 hours (i believe, i could be off on the number) at overtime rate for showing up to court for traffic tickets. Why? Traffic court isn't on weekends, and it's a requirement in the execution of one of their core job functions. That's like paying a contractor overtime to have him groute the tiles after he's layed them down.
It also leads to the increased distribution of tickets that officers know will get tossed out in court, but that doesn't matter because it's in the officer's financial interest to appear in court. Last time I was at traffic court, one of the officers was chatting with his colleauge about how he setup his schedule so that he could take paternity leave and be in traffic court. Take to its logical extreme represents a tax on motorists who need to take a day off work to fight said ticket (half a day to schedule a court date, half a day on the actual date, and if their busy you'll have to come back again). Remove this incentive structure and you can decrease the clogging of the system with specious ticketing, as well as save financially.
Fixing little things like this would be a good place to start.
[...and for the record, i don't "hate" cops, they provide a service and should be paid accordingly. But compensation and resource allocation should make sense.]
01-28-2013, 03:09 PM
#17
Race Car
Wow, Omar, I didn't know you had that kind of eloquence and reasoning in you! Such a different side of you than your facebook persona, not to mention real life! 
01-28-2013, 03:31 PM
#18
Rest In Peace Jaak
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Having been in the Utility field for over 38 years, the use of cops at intersections and construction sites only happened during the Miller term. There is no reason for them to be there other than them being able to make overtime to keep them happy due to their union contract. There was no major or minor issues before they were "mandated" by the Miller Gov. I had been at thousands of intersections etc., in the course of performing my job and there was never a reason for police to be at these sites. The only time they were there in the past was due to an accident or a disaster had happened such as a pole line comming down. The Utility or Construction firm gets the bill for it at usually $65 an hour. I say over 75% of these can be eliminated as by MoL and Highway Transport Act, you must have flagmen/women at each site to control traffic if it is required.
Less of this type of work for Police means more actual Police work that can be done. They don't need to be crossing guards ... they need to do more Police work such as patrols and enforcing traffic laws. In my hood, there are a few speed traps that are set up in school zones that are constantly busy pulling over speeders during school hours. Leep to the limit on Underhill Dr and on Pharmacy Ave south of RR overpass.
BTW ... no tickets or points since 1976 ...
Less of this type of work for Police means more actual Police work that can be done. They don't need to be crossing guards ... they need to do more Police work such as patrols and enforcing traffic laws. In my hood, there are a few speed traps that are set up in school zones that are constantly busy pulling over speeders during school hours. Leep to the limit on Underhill Dr and on Pharmacy Ave south of RR overpass.
BTW ... no tickets or points since 1976 ...
01-28-2013, 03:34 PM
#19
Race Car
I don't think it has anything to do with Miller - it's the same all over the province. I'm sure it's a provincial MTO thing, not a municipal thing. So blame the minister of transportation.
01-28-2013, 03:51 PM
#20
Rest In Peace Jaak
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Nope ... see below. Once one Municipality started ... others followed.
*****************************************************************
October 25, 2011
Toronto may reduce police at road construction sites
GREG MECKBACH
digital media editor
Toronto City Council recently voted to eliminate the requirement to have police officers direct traffic at some construction sites, but the Ontario Sewer and Watermain Construction Association (OSWCA) says they should still be directing traffic when construction is taking place at or near intersections.
Currently the city’s transportation services division has a set of criteria for issuing construction permits, listing several instances where the party must hire a police officer on “paid duty,” meaning an organization other than the police department hires an officer on his or her time off. Although paid duty officers are in theory not working for the police service, they normally wear their uniforms and in essence retain their police powers.
On construction sites in Toronto, a paid duty police officer is required when work is taking place within 30 metres of a signalized intersection. Other instances include those in which the hand gesturing of traffic is required, when work is taking place within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossover when pedestrian movements cannot be made safely, when more than one lane or direction of traffic flow is to be controlled or at signalized intersections where left turning lanes are blocked. There is also a catch-all phrase in the Municipal Consent Requirements, requiring a paid duty officer “whenever deemed necessary by the Toronto Police Service construction liaison officer” or the general manager of transportation services.
Recently, a majority of city councillors voted in favour of a motion to eliminate the requirement for paid duty officers at construction sites “where possible.” In the same motion, council also voted to ask the general manager of transportation services to submit a report to the public works and infrastructure committee on what changes would be required to bylaws, policies and criteria to implement the motion.
“I commend the city for looking at it,” said Joseph Accardi, OSWCA executive director. Although paid duty police officers help keep construction sites safe, Accardi said the use is sometimes “a little out of control.”
Accardi added the motion would help city staff “make a better decision” as to whether or not officers are required at a site.
“It’s almost at a point where they’ve been asking for paid duty almost everywhere,” Accardi said.
But he emphasized his members say there are instances where paid duty officers make sense.
“It’s very dangerous on intersections,” he said. “One thing our guys notice, from their experience, is people react differently when they see flashing lights and an officer in an intersection, rather than a flag person.”
The wording of the council motion was essentially the same as a recommendation from a report, dubbed the Core Service Review, by consulting firm KPMG.
“The city has certain requirements, and they are entitled to change those requirements,” said Toronto Police spokesperson Mark Pugash.
A report from the city auditor-general found that in 2009, 56 per cent of paid duty police assignments were from traffic control, including busy retail sites.
Pugash said a significant percentage of assignments are from private firms that are not required by law to have paid duty officers present but do so anyway for “risk management purposes.”
*****************************************************************
October 25, 2011
Toronto may reduce police at road construction sites
GREG MECKBACH
digital media editor
Toronto City Council recently voted to eliminate the requirement to have police officers direct traffic at some construction sites, but the Ontario Sewer and Watermain Construction Association (OSWCA) says they should still be directing traffic when construction is taking place at or near intersections.
Currently the city’s transportation services division has a set of criteria for issuing construction permits, listing several instances where the party must hire a police officer on “paid duty,” meaning an organization other than the police department hires an officer on his or her time off. Although paid duty officers are in theory not working for the police service, they normally wear their uniforms and in essence retain their police powers.
On construction sites in Toronto, a paid duty police officer is required when work is taking place within 30 metres of a signalized intersection. Other instances include those in which the hand gesturing of traffic is required, when work is taking place within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossover when pedestrian movements cannot be made safely, when more than one lane or direction of traffic flow is to be controlled or at signalized intersections where left turning lanes are blocked. There is also a catch-all phrase in the Municipal Consent Requirements, requiring a paid duty officer “whenever deemed necessary by the Toronto Police Service construction liaison officer” or the general manager of transportation services.
Recently, a majority of city councillors voted in favour of a motion to eliminate the requirement for paid duty officers at construction sites “where possible.” In the same motion, council also voted to ask the general manager of transportation services to submit a report to the public works and infrastructure committee on what changes would be required to bylaws, policies and criteria to implement the motion.
“I commend the city for looking at it,” said Joseph Accardi, OSWCA executive director. Although paid duty police officers help keep construction sites safe, Accardi said the use is sometimes “a little out of control.”
Accardi added the motion would help city staff “make a better decision” as to whether or not officers are required at a site.
“It’s almost at a point where they’ve been asking for paid duty almost everywhere,” Accardi said.
But he emphasized his members say there are instances where paid duty officers make sense.
“It’s very dangerous on intersections,” he said. “One thing our guys notice, from their experience, is people react differently when they see flashing lights and an officer in an intersection, rather than a flag person.”
The wording of the council motion was essentially the same as a recommendation from a report, dubbed the Core Service Review, by consulting firm KPMG.
“The city has certain requirements, and they are entitled to change those requirements,” said Toronto Police spokesperson Mark Pugash.
A report from the city auditor-general found that in 2009, 56 per cent of paid duty police assignments were from traffic control, including busy retail sites.
Pugash said a significant percentage of assignments are from private firms that are not required by law to have paid duty officers present but do so anyway for “risk management purposes.”
01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
#21
Race Car
[QUOTE=Christien;10176832]I disagree with this. First, a career cop is a good thing, IMO. Experience is good in a job like that. Second, I'm not sure I want "professional senior managers" in charge of keeping the streets safe, particularly if they're the kind that ran the big 3 car makers and half of america's banks into the ground.
QUOTE]
IMNSHO it's like having a pipefitter running a hydraulics company. Career cops could manage line operations but without senior managers - MBA types with private industry executive experience, you get the status quo because career cops don't have the management skills to be innovative.....like the old-line engineer who ran the TTC - one of the best moves Ford made was canning him. Now it's time for Blair to make room for someone with the skills to make change - dump constables for cheaper security guards, have the remaining ones doing "real" police work, and shrinking the bloated management ranks. If you hired university grads at entry, like the CIA and FBI do, you'd have people capable of being developed into decision makers...etc.
QUOTE]
IMNSHO it's like having a pipefitter running a hydraulics company. Career cops could manage line operations but without senior managers - MBA types with private industry executive experience, you get the status quo because career cops don't have the management skills to be innovative.....like the old-line engineer who ran the TTC - one of the best moves Ford made was canning him. Now it's time for Blair to make room for someone with the skills to make change - dump constables for cheaper security guards, have the remaining ones doing "real" police work, and shrinking the bloated management ranks. If you hired university grads at entry, like the CIA and FBI do, you'd have people capable of being developed into decision makers...etc.
01-28-2013, 03:58 PM
#22
Rest In Peace Jaak
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More .... http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/11...rk-for-to-cops
"Traffic control amounts to almost 60% of Toronto Police pay-duty assignments. They are also used for security details, emergency duties, escorts, at casinos, licenced premises and special events.
While the police are targeted by politicians and business owners lobbying to cut the number of paid-duty officers earning $65-an-hour and replace them with lower-paid traffic guards, the requirement for such cops comes under a City Hall bylaw. It requires paid-duty officers at any construction site within 30 metres of a traffic light.
The report said Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair approved several proposed system and process changes recommended by financial managers.
“Next steps include identifying the restrictions imposed by Toronto bylaws and provincial acts and defining paid duty requirements,” it stated.
"Traffic control amounts to almost 60% of Toronto Police pay-duty assignments. They are also used for security details, emergency duties, escorts, at casinos, licenced premises and special events.
While the police are targeted by politicians and business owners lobbying to cut the number of paid-duty officers earning $65-an-hour and replace them with lower-paid traffic guards, the requirement for such cops comes under a City Hall bylaw. It requires paid-duty officers at any construction site within 30 metres of a traffic light.
The report said Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair approved several proposed system and process changes recommended by financial managers.
“Next steps include identifying the restrictions imposed by Toronto bylaws and provincial acts and defining paid duty requirements,” it stated.
01-28-2013, 04:55 PM
#23
Race Car
[quote=ronnie993tt;10179119]
Then let's hire university grads only, and retrain older cops to learn management skills, rather than hire managers and teach them cop skills. One seems much easier than the other to learn.
Ftr, yes, it does feel weird to be defending cops
I disagree with this. First, a career cop is a good thing, IMO. Experience is good in a job like that. Second, I'm not sure I want "professional senior managers" in charge of keeping the streets safe, particularly if they're the kind that ran the big 3 car makers and half of america's banks into the ground.
QUOTE]
IMNSHO it's like having a pipefitter running a hydraulics company. Career cops could manage line operations but without senior managers - MBA types with private industry executive experience, you get the status quo because career cops don't have the management skills to be innovative.....like the old-line engineer who ran the TTC - one of the best moves Ford made was canning him. Now it's time for Blair to make room for someone with the skills to make change - dump constables for cheaper security guards, have the remaining ones doing "real" police work, and shrinking the bloated management ranks. If you hired university grads at entry, like the CIA and FBI do, you'd have people capable of being developed into decision makers...etc.
QUOTE]
IMNSHO it's like having a pipefitter running a hydraulics company. Career cops could manage line operations but without senior managers - MBA types with private industry executive experience, you get the status quo because career cops don't have the management skills to be innovative.....like the old-line engineer who ran the TTC - one of the best moves Ford made was canning him. Now it's time for Blair to make room for someone with the skills to make change - dump constables for cheaper security guards, have the remaining ones doing "real" police work, and shrinking the bloated management ranks. If you hired university grads at entry, like the CIA and FBI do, you'd have people capable of being developed into decision makers...etc.
Ftr, yes, it does feel weird to be defending cops
01-28-2013, 05:42 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Many officers have post secondary education and the job demands require special skills, particularly in areas involving cyber crimes. That is a growth area as opposed to some others, which are declining. It just seems that technology hasn't been fully embraced yet, which is really strange considering that some of the stuff is almost off-the-shelf. License plate recognition systems for example could be coupled to highway signs to alert other motorists that plate number xxx xxx on the Camry beside you has a suspended license and expired vaildation sticker. Shame the bastards off the road.
01-28-2013, 05:45 PM
#25
Race Car
Ah, if only that we're possible, but I'm sure privacy laws would prevent it. I do wish shame were more available as a punishment and/or deterrent. I really do think it would make a difference.
01-28-2013, 10:11 PM
#26
Racer
Oh I wish I had time to enlighten you guys... But it would fall on deaf ears.
First off in what business do the CEO's of lets say automotive shop start there career as a farmer. Come on. CEO's in business start in business some how - even if it's sales on a retail floor. The higher ups in most forces are well educated in law, political science, behavior science etc. Some even have MBA in business. It is true that like most large organizations top heavy becomes a problem.
Private police is a bad idea. Would you not rather have professional or minimum wage want a bies protecting your property. How much effort is to be had for 10 bucks an hour. Really look at what you get in other areas for that money
Traffic - this one pisses me off to no end. Your politicians make the laws. People break the law. Police ENFORCE that law. Just because you get caught speeding and it pisses you off - it was important to someone or it wouldn't be law. On that note you want a human making the traffic stop .... Cameras don't show discretion. Oh just because you always seem to get the ticket does not mean its like that for everyone. People do get a break. Just not you. That doesn't mean the system is broke
Cops at construction sites etc. those are paid duties. Not paid by tax payers ( but tax is paid on said money) it's paid by company. Those windmill escorts are paid by the windmill company
So think about what you wish for. Private cops ( that has been turned down by a force) protecting your shop with Porsches ,race cars , architectural what ever. Some one getting minimum wage asking for your/wife information - dob phone number etc. knowing what you have worth protecting etc.
Cameras on every corner taking pics of every car that didn't think they could stop and went through, turn right, or going a few k over...
Also I find this pissing and moaning tiresome. Maybe we could start a thread about lawyers, musicians, PR reps, accountants or how about the electrician/plumber charging what 100 buck service call just to show up
Really
First off in what business do the CEO's of lets say automotive shop start there career as a farmer. Come on. CEO's in business start in business some how - even if it's sales on a retail floor. The higher ups in most forces are well educated in law, political science, behavior science etc. Some even have MBA in business. It is true that like most large organizations top heavy becomes a problem.
Private police is a bad idea. Would you not rather have professional or minimum wage want a bies protecting your property. How much effort is to be had for 10 bucks an hour. Really look at what you get in other areas for that money
Traffic - this one pisses me off to no end. Your politicians make the laws. People break the law. Police ENFORCE that law. Just because you get caught speeding and it pisses you off - it was important to someone or it wouldn't be law. On that note you want a human making the traffic stop .... Cameras don't show discretion. Oh just because you always seem to get the ticket does not mean its like that for everyone. People do get a break. Just not you. That doesn't mean the system is broke
Cops at construction sites etc. those are paid duties. Not paid by tax payers ( but tax is paid on said money) it's paid by company. Those windmill escorts are paid by the windmill company
So think about what you wish for. Private cops ( that has been turned down by a force) protecting your shop with Porsches ,race cars , architectural what ever. Some one getting minimum wage asking for your/wife information - dob phone number etc. knowing what you have worth protecting etc.
Cameras on every corner taking pics of every car that didn't think they could stop and went through, turn right, or going a few k over...
Also I find this pissing and moaning tiresome. Maybe we could start a thread about lawyers, musicians, PR reps, accountants or how about the electrician/plumber charging what 100 buck service call just to show up
Really
01-28-2013, 10:39 PM
#27
Race Car
My 2 bits.
My cop friend (12 years & 2 forces) tells me that "officially" there are no quotas.
However having said that, he/she states that we in the civilian world are judged or reviewed by our accomplishments in the business world.
If as a cop, you don't make any arrests, or write any tickets, someone may ask, "what have you been doing" ?
Thus, sometimes one may chose to write up "a few more early or late in the month".
Can't replace a good veteran cop but just because he/she is a great cop doesn't mean they're great at budgeting. Just look at Chief Blair.
One situation I found really bothersome was the cops that refused a court order to move the natives off the railway in Sarnia. It was NOT a land claim. They just wanted to disrupt trains.
But the cops refused a court order. When cops ignore the courts, we're in trouble.
My cop friend (12 years & 2 forces) tells me that "officially" there are no quotas.
However having said that, he/she states that we in the civilian world are judged or reviewed by our accomplishments in the business world.
If as a cop, you don't make any arrests, or write any tickets, someone may ask, "what have you been doing" ?
Thus, sometimes one may chose to write up "a few more early or late in the month".
Can't replace a good veteran cop but just because he/she is a great cop doesn't mean they're great at budgeting. Just look at Chief Blair.
One situation I found really bothersome was the cops that refused a court order to move the natives off the railway in Sarnia. It was NOT a land claim. They just wanted to disrupt trains.
But the cops refused a court order. When cops ignore the courts, we're in trouble.
01-28-2013, 11:00 PM
#28
Race Car
Oh I wish I had time to enlighten you guys... But it would fall on deaf ears.
First off in what business do the CEO's of lets say automotive shop start there career as a farmer. Come on. CEO's in business start in business some how - even if it's sales on a retail floor. The higher ups in most forces are well educated in law, political science, behavior science etc. Some even have MBA in business. It is true that like most large organizations top heavy becomes a problem.
Private police is a bad idea. Would you not rather have professional or minimum wage want a bies protecting your property. How much effort is to be had for 10 bucks an hour. Really look at what you get in other areas for that money
Traffic - this one pisses me off to no end. Your politicians make the laws. People break the law. Police ENFORCE that law. Just because you get caught speeding and it pisses you off - it was important to someone or it wouldn't be law. On that note you want a human making the traffic stop .... Cameras don't show discretion. Oh just because you always seem to get the ticket does not mean its like that for everyone. People do get a break. Just not you. That doesn't mean the system is broke
Cops at construction sites etc. those are paid duties. Not paid by tax payers ( but tax is paid on said money) it's paid by company. Those windmill escorts are paid by the windmill company
So think about what you wish for. Private cops ( that has been turned down by a force) protecting your shop with Porsches ,race cars , architectural what ever. Some one getting minimum wage asking for your/wife information - dob phone number etc. knowing what you have worth protecting etc.
Cameras on every corner taking pics of every car that didn't think they could stop and went through, turn right, or going a few k over...
Also I find this pissing and moaning tiresome. Maybe we could start a thread about lawyers, musicians, PR reps, accountants or how about the electrician/plumber charging what 100 buck service call just to show up
Really
First off in what business do the CEO's of lets say automotive shop start there career as a farmer. Come on. CEO's in business start in business some how - even if it's sales on a retail floor. The higher ups in most forces are well educated in law, political science, behavior science etc. Some even have MBA in business. It is true that like most large organizations top heavy becomes a problem.
Private police is a bad idea. Would you not rather have professional or minimum wage want a bies protecting your property. How much effort is to be had for 10 bucks an hour. Really look at what you get in other areas for that money
Traffic - this one pisses me off to no end. Your politicians make the laws. People break the law. Police ENFORCE that law. Just because you get caught speeding and it pisses you off - it was important to someone or it wouldn't be law. On that note you want a human making the traffic stop .... Cameras don't show discretion. Oh just because you always seem to get the ticket does not mean its like that for everyone. People do get a break. Just not you. That doesn't mean the system is broke
Cops at construction sites etc. those are paid duties. Not paid by tax payers ( but tax is paid on said money) it's paid by company. Those windmill escorts are paid by the windmill company
So think about what you wish for. Private cops ( that has been turned down by a force) protecting your shop with Porsches ,race cars , architectural what ever. Some one getting minimum wage asking for your/wife information - dob phone number etc. knowing what you have worth protecting etc.
Cameras on every corner taking pics of every car that didn't think they could stop and went through, turn right, or going a few k over...
Also I find this pissing and moaning tiresome. Maybe we could start a thread about lawyers, musicians, PR reps, accountants or how about the electrician/plumber charging what 100 buck service call just to show up
Really
Though I think you're mistaken about cops at construction sites not being paid by taxpayers - yes, the construction company pays for them, but the vast majority of these projects are public works, where the various levels of government are paying the construction companies with tax dollars. So in the end, we are indeed paying for the unnecessary police presence.
01-28-2013, 11:14 PM
#29
Racer
My 2 bits.
My cop friend (12 years & 2 forces) tells me that "officially" there are no quotas.
However having said that, he/she states that we in the civilian world are judged or reviewed by our accomplishments in the business world.
If as a cop, you don't make any arrests, or write any tickets, someone may ask, "what have you been doing" ?
Thus, sometimes one may chose to write up "a few more early or late in the month".
Can't replace a good veteran cop but just because he/she is a great cop doesn't mean they're great at budgeting. Just look at Chief Blair.
One situation I found really bothersome was the cops that refused a court order to move the natives off the railway in Sarnia. It was NOT a land claim. They just wanted to disrupt trains.
But the cops refused a court order. When cops ignore the courts, we're in trouble.
My cop friend (12 years & 2 forces) tells me that "officially" there are no quotas.
However having said that, he/she states that we in the civilian world are judged or reviewed by our accomplishments in the business world.
If as a cop, you don't make any arrests, or write any tickets, someone may ask, "what have you been doing" ?
Thus, sometimes one may chose to write up "a few more early or late in the month".
Can't replace a good veteran cop but just because he/she is a great cop doesn't mean they're great at budgeting. Just look at Chief Blair.
One situation I found really bothersome was the cops that refused a court order to move the natives off the railway in Sarnia. It was NOT a land claim. They just wanted to disrupt trains.
But the cops refused a court order. When cops ignore the courts, we're in trouble.
Your friend is spot on regarding quotas - yearly reviews are number based just like private sector . Private sector will never understand that.
Part of the problem is the mind set that - I may have broke a law ( maybe traffic) but I'm not the bad guy because some is doing something worse. A good majority of Canadians think laws are for the other guy. It's been written here. " I got a ticket for speeding - running a red . But never a cop at school zone - they are speeding"
01-29-2013, 01:00 AM
#30
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[QUOTE=DeAd-EyE;10178949]I'm pretty sure Staff Sergeants still respond to calls/do line work, and i'm going to assume that you don't include detectives as management since they are required to fill a niche role in police services. So the management to constable ratio is not a close at the afformentioned comment shows. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
In Toronto, S/Sgts never respond to calls or do line work. They're an administrative function and they remain at the station. Detectives are included in management as they are the same rank as Sergeant (albeit, in a different function) but they do supervise Detective Constables.
In Toronto, S/Sgts never respond to calls or do line work. They're an administrative function and they remain at the station. Detectives are included in management as they are the same rank as Sergeant (albeit, in a different function) but they do supervise Detective Constables.