I thought you might enjoy the email thread of the attempted scam from some guy in the UK who answered my ad for track wheels i WTB.

I wanted to see just how far he would go and how ridiculous his excuses would be for not being able to take another picture. What tipped me off? He insisted they were early-offset when you can tell by the picture that they were late-offset.

Original Advert:

PD: Needed: full set of 16”, ‘86 Turbo wheels, fronts - 7”, rears - 8” and 23mm offset.

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I am writing with reference to your advert above. Let me know if you're still interested. What's your phone contact?

William Beltijar
+447011137786
48 St. Anne Street, Liverpool,
Merseyside L3 3DW, United Kingdom

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PD: William, you’re in the UK!!! That’s a bit of a stretch for shipping, don’t you think? – Phil

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Hi Philip,

Thanks for writing. My wife works with FedEx and I'll use their services. I have a set of four '1986 Porsche 944 Turbo Wheels with Tires for sale in a great condition and I am selling to create some space in the garage. I am asking a 250gbp for wheels shipped. The price includes shipping on a 4 working days delivery and I'll take payment via Western Union or Moneygram. What's your complete shipping address?


Thanks, William Beltijar

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PD: William, as long as your wife works for FedEx shouldn’t we just use FedEx collect? - Phil

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Hi Phil, My wife's business is different from mine and I will not look to interfere with hers. I am using her services because she works there. Let me know if the asking price shipped is OK. I'll need your full shipping information.

Many thanks, William

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PD: William, the rims are chromed and that makes them more brittle for track wheels. I think 160 pounds and you can keep the tires. - Phil

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hmmm. So what are you offering for them?

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PD: 40 each, 160 total. - Phil,

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If you'd give me a moment to think about the price, I'll get back to you.

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Alright Phil,

I just made a decision and we'll have a deal, I'd have love to keep wheels to see if I could get a local buyer for them, but with the availability of these wheels here, it might be a little difficult. OK, we have a deal. I'll require your full shipping information to enable me arrange shipping. I'll let you know the information you need to proceed with payment once I have your shipping address.


Thanks, William

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PD: OK great! Can you snap a picture of the inside of the wheel and send it to me? I just need to verify the offset. Thanks, - Phil

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Hi Phil, I do not have a photo of the inside of the wheels here in my computer but offset's 23mm. Let me know and e-mail me your details so we can proceed.

Thanx

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PD: No problem, just snap one with your phone when you get home tonight and email it to me. Cheers, - Phil

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Phil, Sorry I own a small Nokia mobile and do not possess a camera. As the owner of the wheels, I have confirmed offset earlier and we are on the right track. Let me know with your full shipping information

Thanks, William

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PD: I'd still like to see a picture of the inside of the wheel if you can get one. What year Porsche did they come off of? Cheers, Phil

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Hello Philip,

I earlier mentioned this came off a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo Wheels and they are in great condition as well. I am unable to get another photo of the inside at the moment, here are some other images I had earlier of the wheels. I'll wait to read from you with your full shipping information so we can proceed with the deal.

Thanks, Williams

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PD: What tire size is on the rear rims? Cheers, - Phil

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Tires 245/45/16 in back 225/50/16 in front

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PD: All right, let’s check out the shipping & time involved. You’re paying for all shipping charges and insurance right? I expect delivery with no additional fees to be collected.

Phil Downe
6 - 21 Royally Street (6th & 21st letters of alphabet – i.e. “F” & “U”)
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
MX5 545

Cheers, Phil

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Hello Phil,

I had a discussion with my wife this morning and she confirms the delivery time will be around 3-4 days once package leaves and there will be no additional charges on the package (shipped as gift). I got a hold of your full shipping information and it has been noted down for shipping. Below are the information you need to proceed with the payment.

Receiver's Name: William Beltijar
Address: 48 St. Anne Street, Liverpool, Merseyside L3 3DW, United Kingdom

Amount to Send: 160gbp (Price for wheels shipped)

Once you're done with the payment, you are to e-mail a scanned copy as proof of payment. If you do not have a chance with a scanner, you can e-mail the information below to enable me confirm and receive payment.

MTCN:
Sender's Name:
Amount Sent:

I'll let you know the tracking # and relevant shipping information once payment is confirmed.

Best regards, William Beltijar


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(NOTE: he then calls me from the UK and I kept up the act and asked if he made sure the address was verified for door-to-door delivery and maybe adding insurance.)

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Hi Phil, It was nice speaking with you. I had just had a discussion with my wife and she says you can a get a 15gbp insurance on the package. She also confirm she has done a check on the address you e-mailed and we're good. Once I get a hold of the payment, I'll let her know package is on the way, so she can process shipping from her end as funds will be needed for shipping and insurance as well.

Kindly proceed to payment with the information I e-mailed earlier and let me know once done and I'll get back to you immediately I complete shipping from my end.

Thanks, William

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PD: William, that’s great. Can you send me the insurance quote and conditions. Thanks. - Phil

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Hi Phil, Insurance packaged I ordered will be a Full Replacement value, not depreciated cash value. Multiple Coverage options. And also your insurance coverage placed will be Primary not Contingent

Let me know as this is staying too long if you are really keen to
purchase these wheels so I can commence shipping arrangements from my end. I had earlier advised everything will be excellent as Jane is skilled and a professional and this is not the first time she'll be shipping out.

Thanks, William

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PD: William, please have Jane send me the insurance coverage details (scan or email) and I'll pay it from here with a credit card. Cheers, - Phil

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Thank you for your quote request. Based on the information provided:

Your price $ 50.00

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PD: What’s that in GBP?


Hi Phil, The price turns out to be $50 as opposed to the 15gbp, which I initially thought. So you should add a $50 to the UPS payment you'll send so I can pay for the insurance here. The total amount to be sent will be 180gbp. Kindly proceed with the payment and let me know. I have sent an forward copy which a worker with my wife's company had helped me to order as I am not used to this insurance stuff.

Thanks, William

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Hello Phil,

Insurance is 32gbp
Wheels 160gbp
Total for wheels, insurance and shipping is 192gbp.

Let me know so we can proceed with the shipping.

Best regards, William Beltijar

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Me: I thought Jane worked for FedEx. Why are you now using UPS?

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She said I wasn't serious with the deal as you are stalling. I am
having a hard time convincing her again. Let me know though

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Me: Hey, I'm the one taking all the chances here! I asked for pictures of the inside of the wheels to make sure they are early offset and balanced and you still haven't sent them.

I was confident with Jane because you said she was an expert. Now you are using UPS and a USA-based insurance instead of FedEx. Let's get Jane back on the deal or you will have to cover the insurance costs. Do you want me to talk to her? - Phil


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Phil, I managed to talk Jane back to understanding you are a serious buyer with your message now. OK, I'll order an insurance for FedEx as the price is same as stated. Let me know if we have a go. Kindly proceed with the payment for £192 (shipping via FedEx insured) with the payment information I e-mailed you earlier for payment.

Let me know once completed from your end and I'll get back to you with an e-mail to let you now payment was confirmed and a tracking # as well.

Thanks, William


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Me: William please just send me the pictures of the wheel weights on the inside of the wheels so I can be sure the wheels are balanced and we’re good to go.


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SILENCE FOR 48 HOURS - after I posted the warning on Rennlist.com UK web forum: “Scammer in our Midst?”


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William, I guess you know by now that I knew you were a liar and a thief from the beginning. How stupid do you think people are?

You belong in jail and I will be forwarding your name, email, phone number and fake address to Scotland Yard and posting a warning on the Rennlist and PCA websites to look out for thieves like yourself.

Now shove-off! - Phil

 

Thanks for sharing Phil.
That was absolutely hilarious. I see this sort of thing developing into a "reality show" a combined Punk'd and Dog the Bounty Hunter where the scammer gets arrested at the end of each episode.

 

Phil. You have too much time on your hands! lol

 

Scary thing is that he sounds pretty legit. I think I'm too naive! I just bought some audio gear from a guy in the USA and the discussion was not much different than what you've posted, however the deal turned out to be A+ and the gear was better than the seller rated it. You never really know I guess!

 

Yeah, I have to agree, there are certainly vague clues (his continual instance for your shipping info from the get go), but generally it sounds pretty legit until he switches shippers.

What was your tip off?

RK

 

payment by Western Union is always a good tip off

 

Quote:

What was your tip off?

The big tip-off was his claim that his wife worked for FedEx, rationalizing what would have been prohibitive shipping costs. Three/four days shipping by air of a large crate weighting more than 150 pounds?

He either saw my WTB post on Rennlist Canada or PCA/UCR. He's in the UK yet with Porsche wheels to sell he's never posted on Rennlist UK! (BTW - he saw my posting on Rennlist UK within 24 hours so he never posts but he follows it).


He accepted a "low-ball" counter offer without even trying to negotiate.

Then his refusal to use FedEx collect, because he didn't want to "involve" his wife.

That wheel design was never made in early-offset, (23mm). Those are clearly late offset (53mm).

He couldn't take, then send another picture? What happened to his camera? A camera phone? His wife's camera phone? i.e. no access to the wheels that were supposedly in his garage.

He got his supposed wife, "Jane" to have a friend at work (FedEx) arrange the insurance, but using a non-FedEx insurer and then showing UPS and not FedEx as the shipper???

I finally gave him a completely bogus address with a scrambled postal code. "MX6 545" which he said checked out perfectly. Also the insurance quote he sent me referred to shipment to the "United States".

A blocked-phone number when he called from the UK.

Google-Earth the address he gave and it's an industrial street of warehouses in Liverpool not a residential neighbourhood with garages.

Constant typing errors, including his name.

He had so many "tells" it was hard to keep track of them.

Cheers,

 

I think i'll pass on this one... Cheers, Phil

Hello friend,

Kindly contact me if you're still in need of the above as I have for sale. Simply shoot me a mail or e-mail me your phone contact.


Best wishes,

George Cameron
Essex,
44 7034057890
United Kingdom