Bob Rouleau

ice- do you consider an ad for Motormeister in Pano an endorsement?

Is an ad in the PCA magazine for a track day (not PCA) an endorsement?

If something rotten happens and a lawyer asks the victim how he heard about the event and he says I saw it in the Club Magazine .. the lawyer might think hmm PCA they have deep pockets!

Note this is more likely in the US, but PCA rules are the same in both countries.

Christien

Many people dislike the idea of Pano allowing Motormeister to run ads because they're a demonstrably deceptive company, by almost all accounts. However nobody would ever suggest that Pano or PCA could ever possibly be held liable for MM's actions. Again, it comes down to advertising vs. endorsement. I'm not going to bother trying to find the case law, but I guarantee this has been in front of many judges before, all of whom have found that a paid advertisement does not equate to an endorsement, and therefore no liability can be transferred.

There's not a chance Richard Bain would be unaware of this. There's no other way about it, PCA is trying to limit competition by not running ads. But really, I don't see what's wrong with that. To bring back my Globe and Mail analogy, you don't see them running ads for the National Post, do you? Welcome to capitalism.

Turbodan

first of all the president of UCR is not Richartd Bain but Martin Tekela and he (as far as I know)is not a lawyer. the policy was not put in place as a result of lawyers or based on instruction from national pca nor any lawyer.
Christien: you are correct that much time is spent in the paddock with ucr but often groups of 40 cars are on track at once...Apex is max maybe 15 cars at one time. the safety and cleanup at some events is not equal to ucr IMO.

Christien

Sorry, didn't know Richard had been replaced - I haven't been a member since last year.

40 cars on track at a time? That's allowed at a DE? That's insane - the track is under 4km long, that means one car every 100m! I thought the track always had a limit of 20 cars or something like that, outside of races? I seriously can' picture 40 cars on track at a time, and would feel VERY unsafe with that much traffic, especially if it were a novice group.

peritus

I like PCA track days, but at most, you get 80 minutes (four runs at 20 minutes) on the track each day. Not really great value ..

You get way more track time with other organizers.

Bob Rouleau

Turbodan - did anyone just ask Marty why no ads for other track days in Provinz? I'm curious because I'm on the exec of Rennsport.

Thanks,

theiceman

of course Bob the MM and Victory comments were tongue in cheek .. but if they pay there add fees they are advertised, but in no way endorsed by the place they run the add. just like any other advertiser. Makes for really interesting discusion.
But satlite customers ( bell ) do advertise on rogers . I am not sure they can stop them if they pay the rate.
Personally I think it is all about protectionism.

I think it is great we ask ourselves the questions..

Turbodan

Peritus: each session is 25 minutes in the advanced groups so 4*25=100.
even at rennlist days (which I enjoy) cleanup crews are small and when an incident occurs track is usually closed for an hour at least.
Chris: last year Patrick Michaud was pres .

Bob Rouleau

Iceman - I speculated as to why, but apparently that was not the reason. I won't go further, there are enough politics in my home region!

TurboS

[QUOTE=Turbodan;7313250]
even at rennlist days (which I enjoy) cleanup crews are small and when an incident occurs track is usually closed for an hour at least.

Time to buy a Porsche watch, Turbodan.

Christien

I think we realized at the last rennlist day that some new rules or conditions must be put in place.

Though to be fair, the really long track closure wasn't due to a crash, it was due to mechanical failure on (if memory serves) a 996 - whatever it was, it was a relatively new car. Meaning it could've happened anywhere. And there were probably 20 guys on cleanup, which would be as many as you'd see anywhere else. There are only so many brooms and buckets of dust.

I still stand by open-track format as being the best. Anyone who grew up playing hockey or piano knows the importance of drills. Just doing the same thing over and over and over again, and getting a little better and a little faster each time. It doesn't work if you practice for 20 minutes, rest for 20 minutes. Maybe practice 30 minutes, rest for 5. Furthermore, the best way to learn is by watching people better than you. You can't do that if the novices are separated from the beginners. For real newbies, yes, they should be separated for safety. But past that, it doesn't make sense to me.

theiceman

understood....

pongobaz

Really? At the last UCR DE I attended I never got a session as long as 25min (white group) more like 20 mins and way more cars on track than at the Rennlist days. I enjoy the PCA days because you can get some instruction (I've been lucky to get good ones), but I don't enjoy the long waits between session...hard to put into practice what your coach/instructor told you at the end of the last run when it was more than an hour ago.
At the last rennlist day, the track was closed for over an hour for a mechanical failure (coolant spill on the track) and almost everyone pitched in to get the track safe again. Crashes have not taken any longer to clear than at PCA days since there is always a flatbed on standby as well as an EMS crew.

chopperzz

I find it difficult to read that they're banning the advertising of non-pca affiliated track days, then when you look in the meeting minutes it shows that they're going to be way down in advertising revenue....I'd quote the numbers but the book is at home.
In today's economic landscape, how can these two points be made in the same magazine without someone getting fired?

Christien

Good point. I brought that up a few years ago - I was looking through their financials and it showed that DEs were profitable. Not huge, but still a couple thousand per, if memory serves. I suggested they do more - way more, and at other tracks. The response was basically "no, not interested". I let my membership lapse last year - no point in renewing.