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Radar detectors in Canada

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Old 01-02-2010, 08:47 PM
  #31  
Fastboy
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Originally Posted by Turbodan
car looks great. congrats.
now tell us about it.
you could have bought Al's on here, he has a car looks very similar for sale.
2003 tt x50 pkg--Not much to tell about the car yet--I literally test-drove it, had Dominic at Eurowerks do the PPI and quote on getting a few things done (fr. end needs to be painted, buff out the rest of the paint)--then negotiated a deal with the current owner--which included new tires and brakes.
Its got just under 70,000km on it, so its not a garage queen (owner drove it to work on the highway daily and maintained it mechanically very well--PPI inspection by Dominic confirmed this). Imported properly from the USA 4 years ago by current owner. Never tracked, x50 pkg was something I was specifically wanting for its extra oomph, plus the black on black appealed to me--I owned a BMW M5 black/black years ago and love the stealthy evil looks of a German performance machine painted black. I wanted a black 911 turbo literally all my life (l set a goal of some day owning one since age 16!)--finally, I took the plunge with this beast. Literally the cumulation of a 30+ year goal. I originally was going to get the 993 model, but made a hard decision to go with the 996. I love them both--could have gone either way as both have strong appeal for different reasons.
My only reservations about this car is that, as my Rennlist name implies, I have a need for speed--I fear for my licence longevity--hence this post.
Old 01-02-2010, 09:04 PM
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pongobaz
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Originally Posted by Fastboy
My only reservations about this car is that, as my Rennlist name implies, I have a need for speed--I fear for my licence longevity--hence this post.
I think everyone here has that problem with how fast these cars are (even the non-turbos) so that's why many of us go and exercise our p-cars at the track. Street driving these cars fast is simply not realistic anymore.

To post pictures: go to "advanced reply", then select "manage attachments" in the "Additional Options" box, then you just browse to find the jpeg file on your computer that you want to attach.
Old 01-02-2010, 11:18 PM
  #33  
Fastboy
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Thanks Pongobaz--how do you get the picture on your replies on the left side of the message below your name--like the one you have that has you in your track helmet?
Old 01-02-2010, 11:45 PM
  #34  
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Go to user CP, then edit avatar. You can then upload a pic but it has to be pretty small.
Old 01-04-2010, 10:27 PM
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cdncanoer
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The OPP have the Australian Spectre Radar Detector Detector, which can detect all radar detectors... Don't ask me how I found that out.....

The only unit that claims to beat the Spectre is the Bell STi. Would love to know if it works for sure.
Old 01-05-2010, 12:18 PM
  #36  
petee_c
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Originally Posted by cdncanoer
The OPP have the Australian Spectre Radar Detector Detector, which can detect all radar detectors... Don't ask me how I found that out.....

The only unit that claims to beat the Spectre is the Bell STi. Would love to know if it works for sure.
FWIW, my friend has driven with the STi daily for the past 3+ years in Ontario, and not been stopped yet by the OPP. He also drove with a mid-model V1 from about 1997 to about 2001 before the Spectre models of RDD came out. Sold it to some guy in Sasketchewan when the Spectre came out.

There is an active forum for radar detectors. Try radardetector.net, lot of posts by Ontario users.
Old 01-05-2010, 01:00 PM
  #37  
theiceman
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I use irfanview to edit my picture size .. it is a great shareware program.
Old 03-17-2010, 09:37 PM
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TomTiddler
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So, I picked up a Bel STi down in Michigan this week. Seems to work pretty well. My question is, when the friendly OPP people pull me over, which they will do eventually if not sooner, where exactly are they allowed to look while serching for a detector? I'm assuming all parts of the vehicle, but what about in my personal bag behind the seat? In my jacket pocket? Anyone actually know what the rules are?
Old 03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
  #39  
IXLR8
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Originally Posted by theiceman
I use irfanview to edit my picture size .. it is a great shareware program.
+1
Old 03-17-2010, 09:55 PM
  #40  
Sultan
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Originally Posted by TomTiddler
So, I picked up a Bel STi down in Michigan this week. Seems to work pretty well. My question is, when the friendly OPP people pull me over, which they will do eventually if not sooner, where exactly are they allowed to look while serching for a detector? I'm assuming all parts of the vehicle, but what about in my personal bag behind the seat? In my jacket pocket? Anyone actually know what the rules are?
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I believe "Po-Po" have every right to search every inch of your car and yourself if they feel you are engaged in any kind of illegal activity, so hiding it in your jacket pocket is pointless....I could be wrong.

I don't know if body cavity searches are on or off limits!! LOL
Old 03-18-2010, 08:14 AM
  #41  
porsche0nut
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Originally Posted by snasrulla
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I believe "Po-Po" have every right to search every inch of your car and yourself if they feel you are engaged in any kind of illegal activity, so hiding it in your jacket pocket is pointless....I could be wrong.

I don't know if body cavity searches are on or off limits!! LOL
I always thought they needed a warrant? Wow have I been misinformed!

Anyway, it's my understanding that it isn't illegal to own a radar detector, just to use it. If this is the case, having it in your car (glove box?) you could argue that you own it for your frequent trips to the states, and keep it in the glove box the rest of the time. "Must have been somebody else your detector found".

Let us know how you like the unit!
Old 03-18-2010, 10:40 AM
  #42  
vipola
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Outch.. I don't think that will pass well.. I think that if you used ot or not they will keep it :P
Old 03-18-2010, 12:25 PM
  #43  
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Don't try and use my advise in court but I believe that a search without a warrant is permissible under certain circumstances but most good lawyers would get you off the hook. Unfortunately, the cost of said lawyer might out weigh the benefits.

Your best course of action is to have an old/used/cheap detector that you can just hand them. How would they handle a custom installed, remote unit? Rip the car apart? If in fact it's legal to own them but not use them, theoretically they shouldn't be allowed to take it away from you. Not to mention,iIt's kinda like finding you guilty and serving your punishment before you have a fair trial.

I suppose that if you wanted to go toe to toe with the officer that you could make it difficult for him but i'm sure he'd reciprocate the favour. Best to hand him the el-cheepo model and take your lumps.
Old 03-18-2010, 02:30 PM
  #44  
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Everyone should read this (below my comments) who are thinking of a detector...

Oh and YES an officer CAN search your person without a warant under ‘Reasonable and Probable Cause” . Failure to allow this is a violation of the Criminal Code of Canada under 'Obstruct Justice' - same as lying to an officer if questioned as to if you have a device in or around your vehicle or on your person. Do not lie and do not try to prevent the officer from searching your person. You can be arrested and it will not be under the HTA either! I'm not a lawyer but have many friends who are (one of whom I just txt'd him on this) and a borother-in-law who did traffic for Metro for close to 30 years. Many times handing over the device can be enough and your off on your way at 'best' - or a fine for the detector on top of losing the device at worst.

Refusing a search, (if you've put the damn thing down your pants) will find you driven to the station after they have found the device and your car flat bedded to impound. Once they have been forced to go to this trouble - they WILL charge you. (That is what I was told is the default setting for lying to the Police in Metro - OPP can't be better!)

The following is a cut and paste from the middle of a newsletter in a Viper site, (or I would have just linked it).

This editorial is an angry one. It's angry from the heart – and an angrier one from my considerably lighter wallet. I've decided to give up (certainly for now) on trying to knock down Ontario's ban on Radar Detectors: Section 79 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. This editorial is also a difficult one. I announced here almost a year ago that I was going for the jugular on this disgraceful Ontario law. Now, I am bowing out quietly. I will not go into details to reveal my strategies in case I ever do decide to take this up again. But I will reveal what I have learned about all the bad lawyers, idiotic Detector Manufacturers and appallingly bad judges that have had their way with me. By the way - according to Section 79, detectors and jammers are illegal in a vehicle in Ontario. Whether they're working or not. Broken or not. If it's a device designed to detect police speed measuring technology, it's illegal.

FIRST, THE LAWYERS: I knew going in this was going to cost a fair bit of money. Naturally, my lawyer underestimated/lied about how much it was going to cost. I asked him to state my chances of winning. I wouldn't proceed unless it was close to 50/50. He said yes, but probably not till I got to the Ontario Court of Appeal or Canadian Supreme Court. When I got the chance to be heard at the Ontario Court of Appeal $12,000 in legal fees later - he said my fight was going to get tougher. And I'd need a lot more money. I got a second opinion from another law firm. They concurred - yep - tougher. $3,500 please. Lawyers - without exception - will always put their own egos over their clients interests. Including their obsessive preoccupation in defending their opinions instead of listening to you or considering lateral thought. Worse, when they reach the prerequisite Ontario Law Society standards of greed, pomposity and evil - they become judges. Any lawyers reading this should smile knowingly. After all, it's just 99% of lawyers that give all the others their bad reputation….

RADAR DETECTOR MANUFACTURERS: I asked the Detector companies (manufacturers and/or their Canadian distributors) to help me out with legal fees. The market demand in Ontario alone would yield them easily $20 million in profit the first 2 or 3 years. That's PROFIT. Sales/cash flow would be triple - quadruple. They all said they'd love to - but no thanks. So I offered them a deal: I'll continue with all the legal bills and research - on condition that if I win and open up Ontario and any other banned province, they will pay me a small percentage. Cobra, Whistler, Beltronics (Bel and Escort brands) all said “Yes, let's deal.” When it was time to sign a contract not one of them played ball. They didn't return phone calls, they missed meetings, they said they will only deal on a handshake, no contracts, maybe this - maybe that, etc., etc.

VALENTINE: You think Valentines are stealth? SPECTRE can catch them easily, it got mine. And Mike Valentine would never take any of my calls or respond to my emails. I dealt with Pete Kaufman - his “marketing guy”. Pete was sympathetic but could not get Mike to answer my calls. They don't ship to Ontario any more because too many got confiscated at the border. Yes, they'd love the Ontario market to open up, but... Thanks Mike, you schmuck.

BELTRONICS: These guys are huge. They own the Escort and Bel brands and engineer and manufacture them right here in Toronto. I got sympathy and shrugs from the president at head office in Ohio (but he wouldn't help) and the broken promises and missed phone calls described above from their two distributors in Canada.

Beltronics is legally allowed to manufacture and ship to consignees out of province. They pay $millions in income tax and business tax. Aren't we glad that Ontario government gets a piece but also makes sure that they keep us safe by not letting us use them? There has never, ever been any credible study that shows detector users have more accidents or fatalities than non-users. In fact, two studies – MORI in England and Yankelovich Clancy Schulman in the USA have shown that detector users have fewer accidents.

It stinks of illegal lobbying and payoffs by the manufacturers. A comparison: You can't posses heroin - it's dangerous. You can't sell heroin - it's dangerous. You can't manufacture heroin - it's dangerous. Now: You can't have a radar detector in your car in Ontario - it's dangerous. You can't retail a radar detector in Ontario - it's dangerous. But you can manufacture them and ship them out of province to kill people in Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and the USA. Hey - that means we can manufacture Teddy Bears and stuff them with arsenic, asbestos and broken glass as long as we ship to places like South America and Africa that don't have the same toy codes as we do.

My friends - if there was proof that detectors caused more fatalities and accidents - I might be in favour of banning them too. Don't the people of Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and the USA love their children just as much as we do? Why don't they ban them? Great Britain had a ban but reversed it; Alberta had a ban in 1978 and REVERSED it in 1987. If there was credible proof that detectors cause anything except fewer tickets, Alberta would ban them fast and so would the other provinces and the 49 states that have no problem with them.

THE JUDGES: The first judge - in Ontario Traffic Court - is a Justice of The Peace. Her name is Ms. Doelman. A Justice of the Peace has no real legal training. They are court clerks. Not lawyers, yet every day they hear cases and pronounce fines. It's astonishing. Her written judgment was incoherent. It contained misquotes and so many errors in law that it could be a textbook case study of an illegal judgment. Next, in our 1st Appeal, the judge - a Mr. Griffen didn't just find a loophole to judge that the Ban is OK - he found a trapdoor. Chicken ****. He didn't want to deal with our arguments so he broadstroked with some judgment that we have no Constitutional rights when driving a car. Guess what? You do. All of them. Truth is, only a very senior court - ie. Ontario Court of Appeal or The Canadian Supreme Court - would recognize this and be willing to pronounce a law illegal. And it takes a lot of time and money to get in front of these courts. Judge Griffen could have done the right thing but just passed the buck. In fact, when we were presenting our arguments he said, and I quote: “I can't believe no one's challenged this law before!” But when he read his judgment a few weeks later - he made it quite clear that my only recourse was to further appeal.

CONCLUSIONS: 1) I did further appeal it and I was offered my day in court with The Ontario Court of Appeal, just one step away from The Supreme Court of Canada. I declined to go. The Detector Manufacturers were still hemming and hawing and wouldn't commit to paper on a percentage deal even after verbally agreeing to do so. Without a signed agreement I'm not prepared to make them millions for a sharp stick up the *** in return. They haven't legally sold a detector in Ontario in 30 years (or Quebec and the 5 other banned provinces). They will continue not to. The last time someone offered to put $20, $30 plus million dollars in my pocket - and only asked for tiny percent of it back, I returned phone calls. This case is dead.

2) We are simply at the whim of any bad judge on any given day. They can choose to ignore your valid legal arguments, rule against you, and not let you say a word. They do let you appeal to a higher court - where with lawyer's fees and court charges it costs you insane amounts of money. Most give up. I did.

3) If you study our revered Charter of Rights you'll find it gutless and effectively worthless to anyone but grandstanding politicians. If you've read any scholarly critiques of it by George Jonas (he wrote Munich, the basis of Spielberg's last movie) and others, you will understand. It has changed virtually nothing in Joe or Jane Average's ability to get something done about a fundamentally bad law. Don't get me started on trying to change things through the provincial parliament. The charter offers no fundamental property rights or economic rights like in the American constitution and Bill of Rights that actually recognize that our people's daily business is business. The charter – and its current interpretation by judges - offers no easy recourse to provincial laws like Section 79 that are clearly set up to grab extra revenues and specifically written to sidestep the Charter. The Ontario government can pass a law that says you can't wear red underwear while driving a car. The Ontario government can pass a law that says Ted Woods can't own a car dealership. Impossible to believe? You have very few real rights in this country. I have seen hardcore proof of this. God help you if you ever really have a beef with the government.

CLOSING NOTES:

1) Except for the Bel STi, do not use a radar detector in Ontario or Quebec. Police have hundreds of SPECTRES to sniff you out. They are good at it. Be careful with the STi, even if they can't see it electronically, they can see it on your windshield, dashboard or visor, especially in a convertible. They are using stealth unmarked Chevies, Toyotas and Nissans to cruise beside you. The manufacturer of SPECTRE is currently working on an update to sniff out the STi. STi's useful days in Ontario may be limited

2) Early on in this case, I sent requests to members of 20 car clubs in Ontario asking for financial help. They all stood to benefit from the removal of the Ban. I got lots of sympathy, empathy and not one cent. Except from 2 members of our Viper Club who donated to my legal fees. I believe this does say something great about the spirit of this club and heart of the people who support it.

3) I am not a good enough businessman to have persuaded the Detector Manufacturers to see the tens of $millions in profits open to them by just offering a fraction back to me. If anyone here has the time, patience and business savvy to get these dimwitted slugs on board, I would be ready to go at it again. Probably more than anyone in Ontario, I have the knowledge on how to get the ban overturned. Call or email me any time.

Sonny Stone: 416-871-8992, sonnystone@shorecreative.com
Here is an interesting case where upon the Piolice tried to stop release of a Radar manual and claimed they don't keep testing data for their equipment. As if.

http://www.accessandprivacy.gov.on.c...n/mo-1873.html

Free Society? Nothin free about it when you have to pay the legal bill...
Old 03-18-2010, 02:45 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Torontoworker
Everyone should read this (below my comments) who are thinking of a detector...

Oh and YES an officer CAN search your person without a warant under ‘Reasonable and Probable Cause” . Failure to allow this is a violation of the Criminal Code of Canada under 'Obstruct Justice' - same as lying to an officer if questioned as to if you have a device in or around your vehicle or on your person. Do not lie and do not try to prevent the officer from searching your person. You can be arrested and it will not be under the HTA either! I'm not a lawyer but have many friends who are (one of whom I just txt'd him on this) and a borother-in-law who did traffic for Metro for close to 30 years. Many times handing over the device can be enough and your off on your way at 'best' - or a fine for the detector on top of losing the device at worst.

Refusing a search, (if you've put the damn thing down your pants) will find you driven to the station after they have found the device and your car flat bedded to impound. Once they have been forced to go to this trouble - they WILL charge you. (That is what I was told is the default setting for lying to the Police in Metro - OPP can't be better!)

The following is a cut and paste from the middle of a newsletter in a Viper site, (or I would have just linked it).



Here is an interesting case where upon the Piolice tried to stop release of a Radar manual and claimed they don't keep testing data for their equipment. As if.

http://www.accessandprivacy.gov.on.c...n/mo-1873.html

Free Society? Nothin free about it when you have to pay the legal bill...
so this guy "sonny" went that far in the legal system then bailed because of the principal of the matter and the off chance that he was going to open a revenue stream for the manufacturers??? i call bullst!!


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