Failure to stop. Not me!
10-22-2006, 05:06 PM
#16
Race Car
Originally Posted by 911 Rod
All of the crap I pull and I get nabbed on my own street!
10-22-2006, 05:53 PM
#17
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Rod,
The first thing I would advise you is that in traffic court they ask you to "swear" or "affirm" to tell the truth, and by your own admission "I would have tried to stop if I could see him." to me that sounds like you didn't stop, correct.
So you should have stopped if the cop was there or not,
Section 136 of the HTA states....
Sec 136(1) Stop at a through highway-Every driver or streetcar operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(a) shall stop his or her vehicle or streetcar at a marked line or, if none , then immediately before entering the nearest croswalk or, if none, then immediately before entering the intersection;
and
(b) shall yeild the right of way to traffic in the interscetion or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yeilded th right of way, may proceed.
As well there are two seperate charges for section 136(1)(a)
- disobey stop sign - stop wrong place
or
- disobey stop sign - fail to stop
Section 136(1)(b) is fail to yeild.....
"highway" - includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge , viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicle and includes the area between the lateral property ,ines thereof;
The fine is $110 and 3 demerit points.....unless it is a community safety zone then the fine is $180
Brad
The first thing I would advise you is that in traffic court they ask you to "swear" or "affirm" to tell the truth, and by your own admission "I would have tried to stop if I could see him." to me that sounds like you didn't stop, correct.
So you should have stopped if the cop was there or not,
Section 136 of the HTA states....
Sec 136(1) Stop at a through highway-Every driver or streetcar operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(a) shall stop his or her vehicle or streetcar at a marked line or, if none , then immediately before entering the nearest croswalk or, if none, then immediately before entering the intersection;
and
(b) shall yeild the right of way to traffic in the interscetion or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yeilded th right of way, may proceed.
As well there are two seperate charges for section 136(1)(a)
- disobey stop sign - stop wrong place
or
- disobey stop sign - fail to stop
Section 136(1)(b) is fail to yeild.....
"highway" - includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge , viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicle and includes the area between the lateral property ,ines thereof;
The fine is $110 and 3 demerit points.....unless it is a community safety zone then the fine is $180
Brad
Good luck with your case...
10-23-2006, 01:42 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Fight it if he could not see the whole intersection, court cases take about 8 months to a year, when you get the court date go to the prosecutors office and ask for disclosure, this could help.
If you fight it you will most likely get it pleaded down or you could get lucky and get off all together.
LastGT3, How can you get them to enter the pictures into evidence?
are there any rules on what's excepted by the courts?
If you fight it you will most likely get it pleaded down or you could get lucky and get off all together.
LastGT3, How can you get them to enter the pictures into evidence?
are there any rules on what's excepted by the courts?
10-23-2006, 10:42 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by Christien
Heh, my dad and I have this argument all the time. He's the worst for rolling stops, running reds, etc. but never gets a ticket. I'm pretty good about those things, at least no worse than the next guy, but I used to get stupid tickets like that all the time...
...and for the guy that started this thread... Why can't you just admit that you broke the law and got caught. Take it like a man and pay the ticket...
10-23-2006, 12:41 PM
#20
Race Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by neunneundrei
Is Brad's signature on your ticket?
Good luck with your case...
Good luck with your case...
That was the first thing I checked!
As far as just paying it.
The reason we are here is to help each other.
I did not ask for anyone's opinion. I asked for help in fighting it.
If someone said they put antifreeze in the oil tank and asked for help.
Would we just say you're an idiot, go to Phaff and pay?
This website if for people with a common interest/passion, not a place to get pissed on.
BTW I would never go through a red light or do anything that would endanger anyone.
My 2 cents worth.
10-24-2006, 12:25 AM
#22
Instructor
Rod,
Many people here are suggesting you "fight" the ticket. If you go through XCopper, etc, you are really wasting your money. The best hope you have is simply to request a court date pleading not guilty. You're not trying to fight the ticket, but rather play the odds. When you actually get the court date (6 months later as has already been suggested), show up and the crown representative's standard policy is to offer plea bargains to all defendants before court is in session. The idea is that they want to have court go as quickly as possible to minimize the JP's time. You don't even have to ask, they will automatically line everyone up waiting to go into the courtroom and ask you one by one if you'll take the "deal" they offer. Usually, they will bargain down to less or no points and a smaller fine. This is your best option. If the officer doesn't show up when court is in (even if you've already made your deal with the crown rep), you get off scott-free. This happens less often, but still happens. Remember that the fine collecting/charging process is separate from the enforcement process. They have very different motives at hand.
Even if they don't try to bargain (never not seen it happen), you plead guilty and pay your fine and you've only lost your time to show up to court. It sounds like the above circumstances would not allow you to fight the ticket easily.
Don't ask me how I know all this....
Many people here are suggesting you "fight" the ticket. If you go through XCopper, etc, you are really wasting your money. The best hope you have is simply to request a court date pleading not guilty. You're not trying to fight the ticket, but rather play the odds. When you actually get the court date (6 months later as has already been suggested), show up and the crown representative's standard policy is to offer plea bargains to all defendants before court is in session. The idea is that they want to have court go as quickly as possible to minimize the JP's time. You don't even have to ask, they will automatically line everyone up waiting to go into the courtroom and ask you one by one if you'll take the "deal" they offer. Usually, they will bargain down to less or no points and a smaller fine. This is your best option. If the officer doesn't show up when court is in (even if you've already made your deal with the crown rep), you get off scott-free. This happens less often, but still happens. Remember that the fine collecting/charging process is separate from the enforcement process. They have very different motives at hand.
Even if they don't try to bargain (never not seen it happen), you plead guilty and pay your fine and you've only lost your time to show up to court. It sounds like the above circumstances would not allow you to fight the ticket easily.
Don't ask me how I know all this....
10-24-2006, 12:10 PM
#23
Race Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by s-spiff
Rod,
Many people here are suggesting you "fight" the ticket. If you go through XCopper, etc, you are really wasting your money. The best hope you have is simply to request a court date pleading not guilty. You're not trying to fight the ticket, but rather play the odds. When you actually get the court date (6 months later as has already been suggested), show up and the crown representative's standard policy is to offer plea bargains to all defendants before court is in session. The idea is that they want to have court go as quickly as possible to minimize the JP's time. You don't even have to ask, they will automatically line everyone up waiting to go into the courtroom and ask you one by one if you'll take the "deal" they offer. Usually, they will bargain down to less or no points and a smaller fine. This is your best option. If the officer doesn't show up when court is in (even if you've already made your deal with the crown rep), you get off scott-free. This happens less often, but still happens. Remember that the fine collecting/charging process is separate from the enforcement process. They have very different motives at hand.
Even if they don't try to bargain (never not seen it happen), you plead guilty and pay your fine and you've only lost your time to show up to court. It sounds like the above circumstances would not allow you to fight the ticket easily.
Don't ask me how I know all this....
Many people here are suggesting you "fight" the ticket. If you go through XCopper, etc, you are really wasting your money. The best hope you have is simply to request a court date pleading not guilty. You're not trying to fight the ticket, but rather play the odds. When you actually get the court date (6 months later as has already been suggested), show up and the crown representative's standard policy is to offer plea bargains to all defendants before court is in session. The idea is that they want to have court go as quickly as possible to minimize the JP's time. You don't even have to ask, they will automatically line everyone up waiting to go into the courtroom and ask you one by one if you'll take the "deal" they offer. Usually, they will bargain down to less or no points and a smaller fine. This is your best option. If the officer doesn't show up when court is in (even if you've already made your deal with the crown rep), you get off scott-free. This happens less often, but still happens. Remember that the fine collecting/charging process is separate from the enforcement process. They have very different motives at hand.
Even if they don't try to bargain (never not seen it happen), you plead guilty and pay your fine and you've only lost your time to show up to court. It sounds like the above circumstances would not allow you to fight the ticket easily.
Don't ask me how I know all this....
That is what I'll do.
Rod
10-24-2006, 12:20 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by 911 Rod
As far as just paying it.
The reason we are here is to help each other.
I did not ask for anyone's opinion. I asked for help in fighting it.
If someone said they put antifreeze in the oil tank and asked for help.
Would we just say you're an idiot, go to Phaff and pay?
This website if for people with a common interest/passion, not a place to get pissed on.
BTW I would never go through a red light or do anything that would endanger anyone.
My 2 cents worth.
The reason we are here is to help each other.
I did not ask for anyone's opinion. I asked for help in fighting it.
If someone said they put antifreeze in the oil tank and asked for help.
Would we just say you're an idiot, go to Phaff and pay?
This website if for people with a common interest/passion, not a place to get pissed on.
BTW I would never go through a red light or do anything that would endanger anyone.
My 2 cents worth.
I am helping you realize that you should be responsible for the consequences of thier own actions.
10-24-2006, 12:22 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by PPo
...but I am helping you...
I am helping you realize that you should be responsible for the consequences of thier own actions.
I am helping you realize that you should be responsible for the consequences of thier own actions.
10-24-2006, 12:26 PM
#27
Race Car
I think Spiff's advice is great. The only reason I used Pointts to fight a ticket is because the ticket was issued in Peterborough and I live in Hamilton. It was worth the $300 to pay them to fight it rather than me drive all the way up there, lose a day at work, etc etc. If it was more local I would've gone in myself.
PPo, my dad's not an unsafe driver, in fact he regularly drives about 30 kmh which drives me nuts, he just does the same speed through a stop sign when there's nobody else around. It's the old "if you came upon a red light in the middle of the desert" argument. I think pretty much everyone here is in agreement that driving safely is of the utmost importance, especially in cars capable of much more than the law allows, but also that the majority of HTA tickets handed out are cash grabs, rather than actually doing anything to keep our streets safer. If the police actually wanted to keep things safe, they'd be doing things like ticketed the ******** that cut across 4 lanes on the QEW because they missed their exit, or tailgating, driving 95 in the left lane, etc. Instead, speeding tickets, stop sign tickets, etc. are just easy to hand out and make money on.
It's not a question of being a man and taking responsibility for one's own actions, it's a question of playing the game the system has set up.
BTW, I was driving eastbound on the QEW a few days ago (in the explorer, not the p-car), left lane, maybe 110 km/h which was the going speed of the left lane at the time (lots of traffic in front of me, I wasn't being a weenie) and an OPP cop pulls in behind me, tailgates me for about 2 minutes, then passes me on the right with no signal! ARRGGH!!!
PPo, my dad's not an unsafe driver, in fact he regularly drives about 30 kmh which drives me nuts, he just does the same speed through a stop sign when there's nobody else around. It's the old "if you came upon a red light in the middle of the desert" argument. I think pretty much everyone here is in agreement that driving safely is of the utmost importance, especially in cars capable of much more than the law allows, but also that the majority of HTA tickets handed out are cash grabs, rather than actually doing anything to keep our streets safer. If the police actually wanted to keep things safe, they'd be doing things like ticketed the ******** that cut across 4 lanes on the QEW because they missed their exit, or tailgating, driving 95 in the left lane, etc. Instead, speeding tickets, stop sign tickets, etc. are just easy to hand out and make money on.
It's not a question of being a man and taking responsibility for one's own actions, it's a question of playing the game the system has set up.
BTW, I was driving eastbound on the QEW a few days ago (in the explorer, not the p-car), left lane, maybe 110 km/h which was the going speed of the left lane at the time (lots of traffic in front of me, I wasn't being a weenie) and an OPP cop pulls in behind me, tailgates me for about 2 minutes, then passes me on the right with no signal! ARRGGH!!!
10-24-2006, 12:38 PM
#28
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BTW, I was driving eastbound on the QEW a few days ago (in the explorer, not the p-car), left lane, maybe 110 km/h which was the going speed of the left lane at the time (lots of traffic in front of me, I wasn't being a weenie) and an OPP cop pulls in behind me, tailgates me for about 2 minutes, then passes me on the right with no signal! ARRGGH!!!
The problem with getting a ticket and pleading guilty, IMHO, is that the penalty is far too high (can someone send me an icon with a lad bending over?). So, figure this, our government has set the penalty for some traffic infraction to, say, $180 - and a couple of demerit points. Pleading guilty absolves me, I feel good, and I move on - I've learned my lesson and the law has done what it was supposed to do, ie. remind me not to take advantage of situations. But it doesn't stop there - I'll end up paying $000's more because of a stupid insurance system which can penalize me as they see fit - way, way beyond what the law (read: the society I live in) has deemed as an appropriate penalty.
As I said, good luck with the case...
10-24-2006, 02:30 PM
#29
Team Owner
Guys don't waste your time with mr PPo.. a whopping 8 posts and no credibility..and i think he'll have a tough time gaining any now..he's probably just a troller anyway.
But maybe we will hook up soon Rod and we can comiserate. Mine was for $270.00 and I am doing what spiff suggested. Already got my court date for next March. I really have no plan but what the hell. I do plan on calling to have the date changed as my court date is during march break and I won't be here. probelm is they won't do it by phone. The problem with pleading is however a conviction is a conviction. Convictions are counted by insurance companies. 51 in a 50 is the same as 96 in a 60 for insurance companies. I share the same feeling as above . I have no problem paying my fine . I have issues with paying insurance companies billons so they can go buy more radar equipment for local law enforcement.. ..and then being refused insurance if you have 3 tickets. One ticket is not the issue, it is the next one you get, now you are really screwed so you have to fight every single one.
see you on the "inside "
But maybe we will hook up soon Rod and we can comiserate. Mine was for $270.00 and I am doing what spiff suggested. Already got my court date for next March. I really have no plan but what the hell. I do plan on calling to have the date changed as my court date is during march break and I won't be here. probelm is they won't do it by phone. The problem with pleading is however a conviction is a conviction. Convictions are counted by insurance companies. 51 in a 50 is the same as 96 in a 60 for insurance companies. I share the same feeling as above . I have no problem paying my fine . I have issues with paying insurance companies billons so they can go buy more radar equipment for local law enforcement.. ..and then being refused insurance if you have 3 tickets. One ticket is not the issue, it is the next one you get, now you are really screwed so you have to fight every single one.
see you on the "inside "
10-24-2006, 02:41 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by theiceman
Guys don't waste your time with mr PPo.. a whopping 8 posts and no credibility..and i think he'll have a tough time gaining any now..he's probably just a troller anyway.
I could be considered a troller by some accounts, but I read this board very regularly. Just don't post that often.... I have been active with the "Rennlist" before it was even a website. I also hosted the original Toronto Rennlist gatherings years ago.... but judge me however you want... I don't care.