Used belts for sale GForce 6 point recently expired. - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums



Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Used belts for sale GForce 6 point recently expired.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2017, 12:38 AM   #1
mark kibort
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
mark kibort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saratoga, ca
Posts: 27,631
Default Used belts for sale GForce 6 point recently expired.

I thought i would offer them here, as they are in perfect shape, but just over the date allowed for Club racing. for DE, there is no expiration for belts.

Let me know, before i toss them on ebay

$50, and that includes shipping in the US.

comes in the original box, with all hardware attached.

Mark

as a note, looking at them carefully, its a amzing they still force replacement of belts after 5 years. seriously, the fabric looks brand new.... discernible from the brand new ones.
Attached Images
 
mark kibort is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:17 AM   #2
ruth
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 20
Default

I believe some regions do require current belts for DE
ruth is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:05 AM   #3
ExMB
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ExMB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
..... for DE, there is no expiration for belts.

......




Quote:
Originally Posted by ruth View Post
I believe some regions do require current belts for DE
From PCA minimum standards:

Due to UV degradation and wear, the harness webbing must be replaced every five years.
ExMB is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:29 AM   #4
mhm993
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
mhm993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Schattenbaum/MNY Regions
Posts: 1,869
Default

Mark is wrong. Many regions in zone 1 where I usually drive have announced they're enforcing the 5 year rule this year.
mhm993 is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:30 PM   #5
mark kibort
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
mark kibort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saratoga, ca
Posts: 27,631
Default

For DE, ill reiterate, most DE or high performance driving schools/ events, dont care how old your belts are....... Maybe PCA has an issue , but most do not. again, check your PCA region.. but in general, DE is to take your car on the track with stock belts and no safety equipment. these are an upgrade to stock belts if the car is fitted with a harness bar because 5-6 point is much better than stock belts when on the track. Most DE groups only car that the car has belts, car isnt leaking and the wheel bearings are tight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ExMB View Post





From PCA minimum standards:

Due to UV degradation and wear, the harness webbing must be replaced every five years.
so, does this fly when you are taking your 2012 Carrera out for a DE.... they (PCA) want all the belts replaced? Maybe this is for aftermarket belts? or when harnesses are installed... either way, seems like a silly rule that only PCA is enforcing when it comes to DE
mark kibort is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:49 PM   #6
DTMiller
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Randomly spraying WD-40 on things
Posts: 3,508
Default

Mark,

You're wrong. About whether they are fine and about whether they are necessarily safer Most groups do care. Just add this to the list of safety related things you are wrong about.

If you want $50 that badly I'm sure we can all chip in and save us from the 19 pages of wrong you are gearing up to post.
DTMiller is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:11 PM   #7
mark kibort
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
mark kibort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saratoga, ca
Posts: 27,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTMiller View Post
Mark,

You're wrong. About whether they are fine and about whether they are necessarily safer Most groups do care. Just add this to the list of safety related things you are wrong about.

If you want $50 that badly I'm sure we can all chip in and save us from the 19 pages of wrong you are gearing up to post.
easy to say someone is wrong, but a lot harder to say why... do you have the knowldege and capasity to do the later?

This is not about the money... this is about not wasting the belts. This is also about knowing, a belt 50% thicker and wider and only 5 years old, is going to be exposed to the same temps, UV, etc as a street car. (probably a lot less) as compared to a car 10 or 20 years old with stock belts. i would love to hear how a stock belt 2x the age is going to be safer than these belts 5 years old at half the thickness and width, with additional mounting points as well. Now, that analysis is just plain wrong for the reasons mentioned. do you have a retort?

my claim and position: 5-6 point racing belts, especially FIA belts , 5 years old are safer than older street belts. (I would add , safer than stock belts brand new, but lets not push it)

Let me put it to you this way..... how about you be my crash dummy in a old 911 with stock 10-20 year old belts vs a harness bar with my belts .
you want to run into a wall with my belts or your belts..... forget about the idea also that you can run a HANs very easily with my belts and you cant with stock belts.... so what would you want to have. which is safer?
remember there is no age limit on the stock belts..... based on what is known about the weakening of fabric over time, isnt that a bit curious to you as to why that is not a requirement for PCA ?
mark kibort is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:17 PM   #8
porscharu
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
easy to say someone is wrong, but a lot harder to say why... do you have the knowldege and capasity to do the later?
LOL, I am going to get this framed. Oh the irony.
porscharu is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:40 PM   #9
Greg Phillips
User
 
Greg Phillips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Deigo
Posts: 238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
easy to say someone is wrong, but a lot harder to say why... do you have the knowldege and capasity to do the later?

This is not about the money... this is about not wasting the belts. This is also about knowing, a belt 50% thicker and wider and only 5 years old, is going to be exposed to the same temps, UV, etc as a street car. (probably a lot less) as compared to a car 10 or 20 years old with stock belts. i would love to hear how a stock belt 2x the age is going to be safer than these belts 5 years old at half the thickness and width, with additional mounting points as well. Now, that analysis is just plain wrong for the reasons mentioned. do you have a retort?

my claim and position: 5-6 point racing belts, especially FIA belts , 5 years old are safer than older street belts. (I would add , safer than stock belts brand new, but lets not push it)

Let me put it to you this way..... how about you be my crash dummy in a old 911 with stock 10-20 year old belts vs a harness bar with my belts .
you want to run into a wall with my belts or your belts..... forget about the idea also that you can run a HANs very easily with my belts and you cant with stock belts.... so what would you want to have. which is safer?
remember there is no age limit on the stock belts..... based on what is known about the weakening of fabric over time, isnt that a bit curious to you as to why that is not a requirement for PCA ?
You can argue and use logic all you want, but the stock DOT belts do not have an expiration and the race belts all have expiration dates.
The PCA DE minimum standards (which includes GGR, Zone 7 and Z8) only allow for 5 years because they are not tested/certified for long-term UV exposure.
A stock belt that is not visibly frayed or torn is deemed safe but an expired harness is not deemed safe from a risk management standpoint (ie insurance coverage)
It may be that the harness manufacturers just want you to have to buy a new set every five years, but that is the way the system is set up.

Greg
Greg Phillips is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:44 PM   #10
mmuller
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
mmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 916
Default

These belts would not work for any of the groups, PCA an others, here in the Northeast that I have run with. Expired means expired.

In NJ at least, there is a state law against running old belts and helmets. Its not uncommon at NJMP to see a state trooper going through the paddock checking cars and helmets out. Then you get a fine, the club your running with gets a fine and the track gets a fine.

I would advise against buying expired belts from somebody.
mmuller is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:52 PM   #11
MSR Racer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mid-South
Posts: 530
Default

This is truly unbelievable!!!
MSR Racer is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:02 PM   #12
Cory M
Super User
 
Cory M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,041
Default

PCA TT and DE require the belts to be in-date for both driver and passenger. PCA made us pull out expired passenger belts once even though passengers weren't allowed and there were no instructors riding along.

Most open track groups don't check dates as the tech inspection is done by the participant. Plenty of people interested in expired belts (open track, canyon carvers, desert toys, etc), I never had any difficulty selling mine.

As to the argument that the expired belts are better than old stock belts, it's true but it doesn't matter. I just had to replace a perfectly good $600 Schroth enduro belt because the date came up. You gotta pay to play...
Cory M is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:03 PM   #13
DTMiller
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Randomly spraying WD-40 on things
Posts: 3,508
Default

To clarify, the $50 is only if you don't post pages of drivel.
DTMiller is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:11 PM   #14
mark kibort
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
mark kibort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saratoga, ca
Posts: 27,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Phillips View Post
You can argue and use logic all you want, but the stock DOT belts do not have an expiration and the race belts all have expiration dates.
The PCA DE minimum standards (which includes GGR, Zone 7 and Z8) only allow for 5 years because they are not tested/certified for long-term UV exposure.
A stock belt that is not visibly frayed or torn is deemed safe but an expired harness is not deemed safe from a risk management standpoint (ie insurance coverage)
It may be that the harness manufacturers just want you to have to buy a new set every five years, but that is the way the system is set up.

Greg
you can make the call on that one .. but in the end, logic would tell you that a set of harnesses that have never sat in a car in texas, baking, and are 2x the size and thickness, would be safter. i understand the politics well , and if the rules dont allow for it, then they dont. however, it is a small % of states and organizations that think this way
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmuller View Post
These belts would not work for any of the groups, PCA an others, here in the Northeast that I have run with. Expired means expired.

In NJ at least, there is a state law against running old belts and helmets. Its not uncommon at NJMP to see a state trooper going through the paddock checking cars and helmets out. Then you get a fine, the club your running with gets a fine and the track gets a fine.

I would advise against buying expired belts from somebody.
Well, you might be right.. only you can do the research for the state and organization you run with ..BUT, according to NASAs rules, Hooked on driving, and many many other organizations, belts in "good condition" regardless of harness or factory, are ok to run. NASA also allows SNELL 90 helmets as well. but, as you say, maybe not in NewJersy, but out west and the rest of the country doesnt have the same view of old helmets and very new belts (relative to what is used by factory stock systems that could be 30 years old)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSR Racer View Post
This is truly unbelievable!!!
yeah, it is... just tying to help some driver who wants to take his car out to the track and be a little safter than stock. I dont need the ad hominem attacks really. it wouldnt be legal in MOST organizations, if it was a big concern to run expired racing harnesses , but newer than stock belt systems... still waiting for the argument against it ..........so far, it's just ad populum (aka logical fallacy)

Below are the first two i could think of... NASA and HOD. both have no restrictions on belts as long as in good shape. so, my belts can help someone out and get on the track, and make it a much safter experience.
Attached Images
  
mark kibort is offline  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:14 PM   #15
mark kibort
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
mark kibort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saratoga, ca
Posts: 27,631
Default

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...ess-setup.html

nice testimonial of what the differences are between stock belts and harnesses.

As a note, i understand , FULLY the logic that PCA uses in regulating the use of after market harnesses. most of this is really related to how they are fed through and work the seat back ( stock seats wont work as well).... i remember a lot of autocrossers back in the day, that did it and it worked well, but not to the safety standards of PCA, which is their choice and i do understand most of their logic. (Not the part about the UV testing part being a determinant factor that is a big stretch).

Hey, if you want them, they are here. If not, ill give them to someone else.
mark kibort is offline  
Closed Thread

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Major issues so far with 991.2? bigbporscheguy 991 22 05-06-2017 01:40 PM
Schroth belts for sale uscarrera Racing & Drivers Education Forum 9 04-06-2017 08:03 PM
FS: Schroth PROFI II "GT3" harness red Jenner Parts Marketplace 4 09-15-2016 09:52 PM
Schroth Harness financialguy Parts Marketplace 7 04-06-2016 05:15 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Copyright ę 1998 - 2017 Rennlist.com
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send