bpu699

Hpde car, beginner. Nice Kevlar cobra Suzuka seats, expired several years ago...

My understanding is that Pca requires a back brace, even for hpde... Correct? Or, is that not the case? Read tons of threads and still confused.

Assuming a brace is needed, whats recommended?

Ioport had a padded one for $199...

Brey Krause is $360+...

See some for $120 that need drilling...not what I want to do...

Make your own?

What are folks using?


As a beginner, the costs are starting to get a bit concerning...

Last year tracked a stock 930 with 40 year seat belts and survived...

Now, added oil cooler $$$, new tires $$$, race seats $$, harnesses $$, custom roll bar $$$, Hans $$, Hans helmet $$...

At some point just want to let the bank account recuperate...

Any input appreciated...

mark kibort

HPDE, shouldnt matter, but for racing its generally known that for expired FIA Seats, you need to bolt the seat back brace to the horizontal bar of the cage.

bpu699

Mark, so for hpde I don't need a back brace?

It's confusing. I see folks running brey Krause harness bars with harnesses and stock type seats.

Clearly, in a rear end collision the seat will fold back, it's designed to do that...

Or I see expired seats and a harness bar.... As far a I know, you can't attach a back brace to a harness bar...

I just wasn't sure if the Pca distinguishes between racing and hpde...

Internet suggests that if you have a rollbar, full Pca racing rules apply...? But what about the guy in the black run group with a harness bar and factory seats! That's ok?

Confusing...

mark kibort

Yep, it can be.. sometimes you get things that do make sense, but the PCA rules can be interpreted a few different ways. HPDE goups, generally only care that you have a car in working condition and seat belts. no other requirements. as you suggest, there are many cars with roll bars added, but dont have anything other than seat belts that mount to them or a harness bar for racing type belts. what HPDE are you looking to do. i havent pulled the rule books for time trial or HPDE for PCA , but i could look at it for you . there should be others here that can chime in too.

rlm328

It may depend on your region whether a back brace is required or not. I would check with the region that you will be participating in.

Frank 993 C4S

To the OP - you need to check with your organizers. Most PCA Regions only require belts to be current. For PCA DE rules check with the region that is organizing the event. Rules tend to vary.

mark kibort

Thats reallly a racing Tech deal where it allows racers to pass tech for racing only.. ive never heard of a DE or HPDE or Time trial where that would be a requirement. I could be wrong, but i sure doesn't hurt to check the rules. most organizations have their rules for HPDE group safety requirements posted.
The reason i think its no issue, is that there plenty of cars, running in DE with no FIA seats or with FIA seats that have long expired. you cant use a back brace unless you have a roll cage or roll bar. roll bars are not required, so that should be the answer right there.

stownsen914

DE clubs can be a little inconsistent on safety rules, even within PCA. If you run across a tech inspector who is knowledgeable and a stickler, I would not be surprised to find you're required to have the back brace. And possibly for passenger seat too.

As suggested, check with the regions/clubs you plan to run with.

As for options, you've named the ones I'm familiar with.

Scott

Cory M

PCA has rules governing the acceptable size for a seat back brace. Many of the off the shelf braces don't meet the minimum area requirements. I believe Brey Krause does, a friend of mine bought one for that reason. I had to weld a plate onto the Autopower brace we have so it would meet. PCA also requires high density padding on the plate if I recall correctly, no braces are sold with padding so add that to the list. PCA seat back brace rules are a lot more stringent than other clubs and there are very few if any off the shelf solutions that meet the PCA requirements.

bpu699

Thanks guys, will call the local pca...

Frank 993 C4S

The specific DE rules are posted on each PCA Region's website.

Mahler9th

If I were you I'd check with Chicago Region and the Steinlifters in Milwaukee. I used to be in Steinlifters and grew up in MKE.

Even if they don't require a back brace for an expired seat, you might want to look into buying one or having one fabbed up.

Kelly Moss may be a good resource. I first met them in 1994.

As far as off the shelf units I think that the BK unit has a loyal following-- Kelly Moss may have an opinion on that product.

I/O Port also has a following-- I have know the owner for a long time and he races with our group. That would probably be my default choice for off the shelf.

Good luck and Go Packers.

Mahler9th

And as far as rules go...

Its best to familiarize yourself with PCA club racing rules and DE guidelines as well as similar materials from other groups. For many/most, you can download these things and refer to them as necessary.

These forums can be great, but nothing beats going directly to those with whom you plan to run.

In most cases, DE requirements are less strict, but by reading racing requirements, you can perhaps plan ahead.

When I started, it was quite common to run stock seats and harness bars. Sometimes folks would run racing harness, even if the sub belt situation was less than ideal. There were a variety of ways that folks dealt with sub straps.

In quite a few cases, the next step might be a seat like a Recaro SRD, with an access hole for sub straps. I used such a seat for quite a few years of DE work, for a while with a harness bar.

Harness bars seem to have fallen out of favor-- I am not sure why. I don't think that its because there were bad accidents where they did not work.

My hypothesis is that internet "herd mentality" has had a lot to do with these kinds of trends. Not regular herd mentality, but internet herd mentality.

911racer

Although I agree with all of the above that PCA regions are not consistant. PCA national has a set of 'minimum standards' that we all must meet. that does not mean that a region wouldn't go to the n'th degree and require everything a race car would have.

I am competition chair in Northern Ohio Region and I chair one of our DE events. We are much more lenient in our requirements for a DE car vs a car that is going to race PCA.

However, the safety rule are there to keep you safe. I would personally feel much more comfortable if you were to prepare your car to race standards. The barriers are just as menacing when you DE.

Back to your original question. Brey Krause is the gold standard in back braces. I have had them in all my cup cars. I have only used the brace, not the bolt on bracket. I buy some square tubing and weld it to the cage for the mating part to the back brace. It saves about $100 and I feel the welding is stronger than the bolt on anyways.

Thanks

Ed

bpu699

That's what I suspect I will do. The Brey Krause support looks safest. Charging 80$ for two 5 dollar brackets to mount them seems outrageous even by racing terms...