Another run at Lime Rock in the GT4
09-15-2016, 01:18 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Another run at Lime Rock in the GT4
Ran at Lime Rock with SCDA yesterday in my GT4, my second time there in this car and probably my 20th time at LRP in the last five years. I consider it my "home" track since it's the closest one to me. I'd like to eventually get under the 1:00 lap mark at this historic track. I've come closest in my former 991 Carrera S, at 1:00.4. The GT4 is proving more difficult for me in approaching the minute lap goal, which has surprised me. I posted earlier in the season and received a lot of helpful feedback--I've tried to incorporate it where appropriate.
As per my AiM Solo, I got down to 1:01.69 this time, which is certainly an improvement over my first outing in June. But still more than a second off the 991's time, and two seconds off where I'd like to be. Furthermore, consistent 1:01s only started during my fourth and final session of the day. I felt like things were finally starting to "click" by the third and fourth session. When I only manage to get to LRP two or three times a season, it's like relearning it each time for the first part of the day. Wish I could hit it every other week.
I do know that sub-minute times are possible in this car--rennlister Jenner posted a 0:59.88 earlier this season. I'm the limiting factor, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I feel like I'm using all the track--apexing correctly, tracking all the way out to the exit curbing. I don't feel like I can be pushing much harder. The car is sliding in certain sections of the track, especially T1-2 Big Bend, and the Left-Hander, where it was difficult to get the car settled. I tried getting to full throttle sooner, especially at the Right-Hander, the Uphill, West Bend and the Downhill, but it sure takes cojones...
Speaking of which, I've been running with stability control on. Obviously trying my best to be smooth and not provoke it. But LRP is so unforgiving when it comes to off-track excursions--I'm not quite ready to go without the safety net in this car at this track at this point. I wonder, though, if I'm leaving time on the table, especially in the slower parts of the track, by having stability control on. It did seem that by the end of the day, things were flowing more naturally, I was more relaxed and comfortable with allowing the car to slide a bit while staying on top of it, not fighting it, and was faster as a result, while working less hard.
Video of a lap follows--comments welcome. Thanks in advance.
As per my AiM Solo, I got down to 1:01.69 this time, which is certainly an improvement over my first outing in June. But still more than a second off the 991's time, and two seconds off where I'd like to be. Furthermore, consistent 1:01s only started during my fourth and final session of the day. I felt like things were finally starting to "click" by the third and fourth session. When I only manage to get to LRP two or three times a season, it's like relearning it each time for the first part of the day. Wish I could hit it every other week.
I do know that sub-minute times are possible in this car--rennlister Jenner posted a 0:59.88 earlier this season. I'm the limiting factor, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I feel like I'm using all the track--apexing correctly, tracking all the way out to the exit curbing. I don't feel like I can be pushing much harder. The car is sliding in certain sections of the track, especially T1-2 Big Bend, and the Left-Hander, where it was difficult to get the car settled. I tried getting to full throttle sooner, especially at the Right-Hander, the Uphill, West Bend and the Downhill, but it sure takes cojones...
Speaking of which, I've been running with stability control on. Obviously trying my best to be smooth and not provoke it. But LRP is so unforgiving when it comes to off-track excursions--I'm not quite ready to go without the safety net in this car at this track at this point. I wonder, though, if I'm leaving time on the table, especially in the slower parts of the track, by having stability control on. It did seem that by the end of the day, things were flowing more naturally, I was more relaxed and comfortable with allowing the car to slide a bit while staying on top of it, not fighting it, and was faster as a result, while working less hard.
Video of a lap follows--comments welcome. Thanks in advance.
09-15-2016, 08:45 AM
#2
Drifting
I'm not an expert by any means, but I have been driving LRP with my SPB. It's hard to see some of the sections because of the sun glare but the few things I saw were:
1) I think you can get on the gas sooner before turn 4
2) I think you're losing some time in the downhill.
3) Line looks fine to me.
I know the GT4 should be able to do sub 1's, Both Bill Rudtner and Matt Muller are running 1:00 laps in a SPB. But they told me it's not easy to get 1 flat in a SPB, you have to be on top of your game. I'm currently trying to get below a 1:05 in my SPB. Hopefully I can get that next time I'm there.
Jeff
1) I think you can get on the gas sooner before turn 4
2) I think you're losing some time in the downhill.
3) Line looks fine to me.
I know the GT4 should be able to do sub 1's, Both Bill Rudtner and Matt Muller are running 1:00 laps in a SPB. But they told me it's not easy to get 1 flat in a SPB, you have to be on top of your game. I'm currently trying to get below a 1:05 in my SPB. Hopefully I can get that next time I'm there.
Jeff
09-15-2016, 09:40 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
From your hands cam it looks like you're doing a cool-down lap. Need more heat. 
You are safely below the grip limit everywhere.
You are creeping into T1 (early turn-in) but you are not using that straight line to delay your breaking. You could be trail-braking almost all the way to the apex there.
Need to be further to the left and sooner, and sooner on gas at exit of left-hander. This will allow getting sooner on gas before right-hander.
Need to do more (quicker) turning at both the uphill and the downhill compressions.
Doesn't look like you'll break under 1:01 without switching off traction control and doing some/more handiwork (car control to straddle the grip limit).
Apart from the above, the line is mostly good -- just need more cowbell.
You are safely below the grip limit everywhere. You are creeping into T1 (early turn-in) but you are not using that straight line to delay your breaking. You could be trail-braking almost all the way to the apex there.
Need to be further to the left and sooner, and sooner on gas at exit of left-hander. This will allow getting sooner on gas before right-hander.
Need to do more (quicker) turning at both the uphill and the downhill compressions.
Doesn't look like you'll break under 1:01 without switching off traction control and doing some/more handiwork (car control to straddle the grip limit).
Apart from the above, the line is mostly good -- just need more cowbell.
09-15-2016, 09:43 AM
#4
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Send me your aim data file from the 1:01.7.
Will take a look over the next few weeks. It's there..
Will take a look over the next few weeks. It's there..
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www.peterkrause.net
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Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
09-15-2016, 10:19 AM
#5
Addict
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Don't turn your TC off - it's not holding you back. Sent you a PM with some notes and video.
09-15-2016, 12:21 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Ran at Lime Rock with SCDA yesterday in my GT4, my second time there in this car and probably my 20th time at LRP in the last five years. I consider it my "home" track since it's the closest one to me. I'd like to eventually get under the 1:00 lap mark at this historic track. I've come closest in my former 991 Carrera S, at 1:00.4. The GT4 is proving more difficult for me in approaching the minute lap goal, which has surprised me. I posted earlier in the season and received a lot of helpful feedback--I've tried to incorporate it where appropriate. As per my AiM Solo, I got down to 1:01.69 this time, which is certainly an improvement over my first outing in June. But still more than a second off the 991's time, and two seconds off where I'd like to be. Furthermore, consistent 1:01s only started during my fourth and final session of the day. I felt like things were finally starting to "click" by the third and fourth session. When I only manage to get to LRP two or three times a season, it's like relearning it each time for the first part of the day. Wish I could hit it every other week. I do know that sub-minute times are possible in this car--rennlister Jenner posted a 0:59.88 earlier this season. I'm the limiting factor, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I feel like I'm using all the track--apexing correctly, tracking all the way out to the exit curbing. I don't feel like I can be pushing much harder. The car is sliding in certain sections of the track, especially T1-2 Big Bend, and the Left-Hander, where it was difficult to get the car settled. I tried getting to full throttle sooner, especially at the Right-Hander, the Uphill, West Bend and the Downhill, but it sure takes cojones... Speaking of which, I've been running with stability control on. Obviously trying my best to be smooth and not provoke it. But LRP is so unforgiving when it comes to off-track excursions--I'm not quite ready to go without the safety net in this car at this track at this point. I wonder, though, if I'm leaving time on the table, especially in the slower parts of the track, by having stability control on. It did seem that by the end of the day, things were flowing more naturally, I was more relaxed and comfortable with allowing the car to slide a bit while staying on top of it, not fighting it, and was faster as a result, while working less hard. Video of a lap follows--comments welcome. Thanks in advance. Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qImThjHiK0Q
Yes, you are late to throttle on most turns. Big Bend is a entry speed turn, with trail braking into the first apex, then back on some throttle and try hugging the entry curbing longer. As you turn in for T2, lift to get some rotation and then back to full throttle.
Use the inside rumbles on the left hander carrying some braking in and get back to full throttle sooner, lift for turn in to right hander and back to full throttle at the apex as you track out. Lighter braking for the uphill, trail brake into west bend and again lighter braking on the downhill. Hard to tell how much brake you're using, but we all over brake these turns.
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09-15-2016, 04:50 PM
#8
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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One lesson with Simon and you will be under a minute.
Others have made specific comments but it could be boiled down to less brake more throttle.
Others have made specific comments but it could be boiled down to less brake more throttle.
09-15-2016, 07:38 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
09-15-2016, 07:57 PM
#10
I haven't driven Lime Rock in 40 years but , like you, I'm trying to figure out the GT4. I've found that the nannies, although not as intrusive as earlier versions, definitely cut throttle. I turn them off.
09-16-2016, 11:39 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
I'm not an expert by any means, but I have been driving LRP with my SPB. It's hard to see some of the sections because of the sun glare but the few things I saw were:
1) I think you can get on the gas sooner before turn 4
2) I think you're losing some time in the downhill.
3) Line looks fine to me.
I know the GT4 should be able to do sub 1's, Both Bill Rudtner and Matt Muller are running 1:00 laps in a SPB. But they told me it's not easy to get 1 flat in a SPB, you have to be on top of your game. I'm currently trying to get below a 1:05 in my SPB. Hopefully I can get that next time I'm there.
Jeff
1) I think you can get on the gas sooner before turn 4
2) I think you're losing some time in the downhill.
3) Line looks fine to me.
I know the GT4 should be able to do sub 1's, Both Bill Rudtner and Matt Muller are running 1:00 laps in a SPB. But they told me it's not easy to get 1 flat in a SPB, you have to be on top of your game. I'm currently trying to get below a 1:05 in my SPB. Hopefully I can get that next time I'm there.
Jeff
I'll try to figure out how to get the files out of the unit.Next season, book a session or two with Simon Kirkby. He will help you get quicker there. What tires are you running?
Yes, you are late to throttle on most turns. Big Bend is a entry speed turn, with trail braking into the first apex, then back on some throttle and try hugging the entry curbing longer. As you turn in for T2, lift to get some rotation and then back to full throttle.
Use the inside rumbles on the left hander carrying some braking in and get back to full throttle sooner, lift for turn in to right hander and back to full throttle at the apex as you track out. Lighter braking for the uphill, trail brake into west bend and again lighter braking on the downhill. Hard to tell how much brake you're using, but we all over brake these turns.
Yes, you are late to throttle on most turns. Big Bend is a entry speed turn, with trail braking into the first apex, then back on some throttle and try hugging the entry curbing longer. As you turn in for T2, lift to get some rotation and then back to full throttle.
Use the inside rumbles on the left hander carrying some braking in and get back to full throttle sooner, lift for turn in to right hander and back to full throttle at the apex as you track out. Lighter braking for the uphill, trail brake into west bend and again lighter braking on the downhill. Hard to tell how much brake you're using, but we all over brake these turns.
What groups do you typically instruct for, Bill? I'd be interested in attending...
09-16-2016, 11:44 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
From your hands cam it looks like you're doing a cool-down lap. Need more heat. You are safely below the grip limit everywhere.
Ouch. I may LOOK calm, but it doesn't mean I am. Seriously, though, I felt like I was close to the limit of grip in many sections of the track. Maybe it's just a matter of me getting comfortable with being "uncomfortable," with the car right on the edge of traction...
You are creeping into T1 (early turn-in) but you are not using that straight line to delay your breaking. You could be trail-braking almost all the way to the apex there.
Need to be further to the left and sooner, and sooner on gas at exit of left-hander. This will allow getting sooner on gas before right-hander.
Need to do more (quicker) turning at both the uphill and the downhill compressions.
Doesn't look like you'll break under 1:01 without switching off traction control and doing some/more handiwork (car control to straddle the grip limit).
Apart from the above, the line is mostly good -- just need more cowbell.
Have you been going through my closet?
You are safely below the grip limit everywhere. Ouch. I may LOOK calm, but it doesn't mean I am.
Seriously, though, I felt like I was close to the limit of grip in many sections of the track. Maybe it's just a matter of me getting comfortable with being "uncomfortable," with the car right on the edge of traction...You are creeping into T1 (early turn-in) but you are not using that straight line to delay your breaking. You could be trail-braking almost all the way to the apex there.
Need to be further to the left and sooner, and sooner on gas at exit of left-hander. This will allow getting sooner on gas before right-hander.
Need to do more (quicker) turning at both the uphill and the downhill compressions.
Doesn't look like you'll break under 1:01 without switching off traction control and doing some/more handiwork (car control to straddle the grip limit).
Apart from the above, the line is mostly good -- just need more cowbell.
Have you been going through my closet?
:
09-17-2016, 09:21 AM
#14
I usually instruct at WGI three times a year with Allegheny, Niagara, Riesentoter, and NY Metro. Will be there 10/3 & 4 with Niagara. I also frequent NJMP usually with Schatttenbaum, will be there 10/13 & 14.
09-17-2016, 11:46 AM
#15
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