mark kibort

By the way mike, why the RE11's? aren't the RE050s a little stickier for a street tire? curious. I have a street car that I track sometimes and need to get some new tires (10 years old. )

TXE36

I don't remember. They were RE-11As, at the time a tire with a good reputation of having good wet and dry performance and no chunking. I moved on to NT-05s because they cost less. I now run Sumitomo HTRZ IIIs on that car. A very good street tire, very good rain tire, and dirt cheap. Caveat is they will chunk like crazy on a dry track.

I went through a set of Hankook RS-3s and though they were a good dual purpose tire.

Frankly, since getting the track car and trailer, I haven't looked much at dual purpose tires and my knowledge is old. They don't even make the RE-11A anymore, but I've heard its replacement is good, whatever that is.

-Mike

Thundermoose

RE71R I believe. Excellent tire!

mark kibort

Thanks guys.. i have no idea about street tires, except 10 year old Bridgstone 050s dont stick very well. (and are just too old to be safe... yes, i said it!)

But, i only drive this car on the street 3k miles a year and do one track day a year with it.

Ill look into the NT-O5s and check out the RE71s. i remember those from the "day".

so mike, you might want to go to a real DOT tire, like a R888. i bet that would give you the 3-4 seconds you are looking for. since you dont drive it on the street much, that might be the ticket.

TXE36

I'm pretty sure the RE71 will be better than the NT-05. For the same price or a bit more, I'd go RE71, but then I haven't done any research. The NT-05 isn't a great tire, it is a very decent tire for how much they cost. I run them as rain tires for the track car because they can handle the dry without chunking for those days when it's not completely wet.

WRT to lap times, I don't buy time. I know I would be faster on stickier tires, but that would only be because of the tires, not me. The tires I'm using now are still good for another 4 seconds or so.

-Mike

mark kibort

i thought of that after i advised it..... my thoughts were, even after i got to a certain level, i went back to street tires for WCGT and its fun, but not fun like the rain. kind of inconsistent fun. i mean, they work, and slide, but the grip is not as predictable... so you always will hold a little back. i think that is good starting out, but your experience might be enhanced by more of a track tire so you can work near the edge without them biting as hard. they work at larger slip angles so you can work the angles and attitude better. just a thought. i think you have the right attitude here and are not about the time, just improving and that's good. But, something might be said for a tire that just works better. kind of like why you put a suspension on the car... more challenging and good for driving skills to run a stock car, but what a mess, right??? just a thought.

Thundermoose

I get what you're saying. I had personal time goals before I upgraded from NT01's to Hoosiers and before I added Aero.

At the same time, I carry forward something that I learned while I was running a lot. Which is to run fast you have to practice fast. Profound, eh? Basically, we were training for 5k's, but rather than just doing a lot of 5k to 10k runs to build stamina, we'd also do a lot short sprints - way faster than any 5k pace I would ever be able to sustain.

Sometimes, you just need to bust out a set of sticker 40 tw tires and feel what it's like to go faster than you had ever driven before. In the end that actually helped me run faster times on slower tires. I remember improving on my personal record at TWS by more than 3 seconds when I went out on some some Z214's. They next time I went back out on my Nitto's I was 1 second faster than my previous best on those same tires.

...but don't kid yourself, we're all paying for lap times in some way or another, be it seat time, buying a professional race coach's former track car, data acquisition systems, or any other number of performance mods...

Gofishracing

"Tires too old to be safe!!" " Look, I'm trying to be nice too." Wow-

mark kibort

Mike and Dave,
not to beat a dead horse here, but i found a more related video that shows a lot of high RPM exits to many turns.
take a look at cory's video at COTA in a lower powered touring car.
you can see that he shifts just as he exits each turn by using 2nd gear a lot of places. (especially the slow turn before the longest straight) Not saying that that Mike, you should do this on every turn, but there could be a little time to be found here by doing so.
basicallly that was my point. sure there is more wear involved, but if you wanted to squeeze out a second on a lap, this might be a way to do it.
Worst case, just have a look of someone making a pretty decent lap time in a car with not a ton of power.

texlbs

I agree with carrying more corner speed in the slow turns, will assume you know your motor and if a lower gear would help. I've seen some use first gear, but it is car specific.

Maybe I missed other comments, but the lifts are what stood out to me. Every car I have driven at COTA (S2000 on Hoosiers, SM on street tires, and EXR on street tires) is flat through T2, T3, and T10. I believe you lifted for all of these. I suspect that would add up to some time. Also looks like you could carry more speed in the early portion of 16,17,18

TXE36

Just got back from COTA again. This time on NT-05 street tires because of rain in the forecast. I think I've improved on not overdriving the car at the apex and trail braking more. Still lifting too much.

From the original post in this thread with Chin back in September:

From last Friday at COTA on NT-05s:

The NT-05s felt much slicker than the NT-01s.

If I compare speeds:

• Speed under T3 bridge: 90 vs 90 now - draw.
• Speed under bridge at T6: 69 vs 66 now- slower.
• Speed at T9 apex: 58 vs 58 now- draw.
• Terminal speed before T11: 107 vs 104 now- slower.
• Terminal Velocity at end of back straight: 130 vs 133 then- faster.
• T18 Apex Speed: 88 vs 90 now- faster.
• T19 Braking zone entry speed: 97 vs 97 now- draw.
• S/F speed: 105 vs 107 now- faster.

One thing that sticks out is my mind is the terminal velocity on the back straight is much better at 133 MPH vs 130 MPH in Sept. Would have done better last Friday if I hadn't missed the downshift to 3rd for T9. Also, the NT-05s felt much slicker than the NT-01s but were much better for the next session as the forecasted rain did make an appearance.

I need to study more of the data, but I can't help but wonder if some of the improvement was from temperature due to moar power from the motor. It was only 58 or so last Friday, while it was in the high 80's or maybe 90's in Sept.

Oh, and here it is on that side by side link Peter provided: Side by Side.

Thanks for looking.

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

Mike, a few things:

Early apex in 1 and thus you had to delay throttle

Stay on full power until apex curbing of 3

More gas in 6--its fourth gear...

No brakes for 7

Downshift for 8 to get a better launch

Gas harder and sooner in 19--again its fourth gear

Thundermoose

Mike:

I can't add to what Dave said. I have only been to COTA once so I am no expert, but I did have Tim Strehl and Scott Landon look at data with me all weekend and I was able to continuously improve. Here's my best lap - better tires and more engine than you but I think you can do full throttle from 1 to past Apex of 3 on NT01's for sure. Maybe something in here of use.

mark kibort

Those were much better laps. nice! Looks like fun... definitely a track I need to put on the bucket list!

AGO

Quick!
Which tires?