Matt Lane

Guess some regions check, I suppose many don't.

Anyone care to chime in on the specific NE PCA regions that run Mosport, Palmer, LCMT, the Glen [UCR? NER? Other Zone 1 events?] - is this something that gets checked or is part of a tech sheet?

Same question for belts, actually.

Looking to avoid surprises/plan accordingly.


Cheers

Matt

jlanka

Henry started announcing harness expiration at the drivers meetings for the Metro WGI DE this past weekend. First time I've heard him mention that (might have started at LRP last month). AFAIK they're not checking at tech inspection.

Frank 993 C4S

Belts need to be current. To my knowledge, seats don't expire.

docwyte

Yup. What Frank said.

Matt Romanowski

You could check the tech form for the regions you plan on running with. That will have it all.

noturavgm

No DE group I've ever run with in the Northeast has asked about seats.

AudiOn19s

FIA rated seats absolutely expire on the same 5 year cycle. I believe you can run them after expiration date if a seat back brace is added.

So is that next year...they'll start checking seats for DE and we'll all have to buy new seats too?

Where does it stop?

**I should note, my harness' are current...but I really don't care fr the policing of this in DE because I personally feel it's a cost blocker to more people having proper safety equipment**

Frank 993 C4S

You are partially correct in that for Club Racing you can race FIA 8855-1999 seats within six years and FIA 8862-2009 within eleven years of manufacture, unless you have a mid engine car or a seat brace, in which case they don't expire. I recently had my seat checked at a PCA DE but they weren't sure about the rules.

kk2

I've seen clubs that care and those that don't. Crazy that they will let people run on ~15 year old euro recaros seats but 6 year old racing seats aren't ok.

I'd personally replace them anyway. Might be a money making tactic but I'm not risking my safety for $1,000 or so.

DTMiller

Last I looked for PCA DE seats being out of date is OK. Harnesses must be current.

Obviously club racing has different requirements.

Maybe this thread can now morph into the 546th time there is a discussion of 30 year old stock seatbelts being fine but 5 year 1 day old harnesses are **** so that horse can be beaten to death again.

Lemming

PCA DE minimum standards can be found at https://www.pca.org/driver-education-minimum-standards

However, clubs can be more strict if they feel so inclined. The AL PCA does not check for expired seats.

LuigiVampa

Being safe has to trump cost - its an unfortunate fact. Some may claim that everyone signs a waiver and should be able to drive with the equipment they want to but, as was pointed out in another thread, that doesn't necessarily get rid of all the legal liability. That creates a problem.

The insurance PCA and other organizations carry is contingent on certain safety standards. No standards = no insurance. No insurance = no track time.

At a recent PCA driver's meeting I attended there was a long discussion about how suspension parts time out and the need to put them on a schedule to be replaced. Some people complained about cost.

The bottom line is that if you can't keep your car 100% safe you really need to think about the number of track days you are doing. Is your health, or even your life, worth being cheap on safety parts? Not me.

bpu699

Interesting... I just bough some expired harnesses specifically for drivers ed. This is the first that I am hearing that you can't use and expired harness?

Its not on the tech forms in Chicago PCA, and don't know if anyone actually checks...

Bought some new inbox Schroth harnesses that are 6 years old. I feel completely comfortable using them, they look like new, never exposed to UV light...

I always thought that in date belts and seats were only required for pca racing, NOT hpde?

jlanka

That would be sort of like the argument for not wearing fire suits at a DE - fire doesn't know it's a DE. Expired harnesses don't know it's a DE either.

LexVan

From the Chicago Region PCA for DE's:

SEAT BELTS: Novice, Green, & Yellow may run with stock seats and belts.
White Group 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat recommended, must have CDI approval.
Black Group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat, rollover protection, and CDI approval.
All belts securely anchored, Metal-to-metal, with large diameter washers on both sides of floor mounting holes.
SFI/FIA approved arm restraints required for All Open Cars.
Harness and Seats must be equipped the “same” for Driver and Passenger side

III. Harness Rule:
PCA Chicago Region has adopted the following rules pertaining to harness belts, race seats and rollover protection for participants in all
Chicago Region Drivers’ Education events (DE) effective January 1, 2008.
Yellow, Green and Novice groups may run with stock seats and belts
White group recommends a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat* and rollover protection.
Black group requires a 5 or 6-point harness with proper race seat* and must be equipped at a minimum with a roll bar**.
White and Black Run Groups also require Chief Driving Instructor (CDI) approval.
* The race seat is required to have proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and antisubmarine
straps. Single piece race seats recommended. Race seats that have reclining articulation are approved for DE only.
**A bolt in or welded in roll bar is recommended. Roll bars must meet PCA Club Racing Specifications and must be covered with closed cell
foam padding in any place where a helmet could come in contact with the bar.
The above safety rule change was developed in response to PCA National’s harness recommendations approved in 2007 as follows:
Harness Systems: If the participant chooses to install a 5 or 6 point driving harness (four point systems are not safe and therefore not
allowed) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include an
antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be
used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint
system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and
anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from
horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll
bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and
is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM. In order to have a COMPLETE SYSTEM, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage and an approved (SFI or
FIA) Head and Neck Restraint System (HANS) device are strongly encouraged and highly recommended.
The changes we have adopted allow the driver to make the choice whether to install a harness or not. If participating in DE as a novice,
green or yellow group driver at any of our Chicago events, stock lap belts are acceptable.
If your proficiency allows, and you wish to progress to the faster White or Black group, Chief Driving Instructor approval is required.
Harness/Race Seat and Rollover protection is highly recommended for White group and required for the Black group.
National’s DE safety standards also require equal restraints for student and instructor.
Equal Restraints: Both student and instructor shall have the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed
lap and shoulder restraint system.
If you wish to have an instructor ride with you, or instruct a student in your car, both shall have the same restraint system. If you have
installed a harness and race seat in the driver’s position but the stock seat and lap belt remain in the passenger side, the driver would have
to use the stock lap belt (instead of the harness) and run in the Green or Yellow group when instructing or being instructed.


PCA National’s DE standards is found at:

http://www.pca.org/drivers-education-minimium-standards