Endless and SRF gives a firm brake pedal and has never boiled on me. I have boiled Motul and the pedal wasn't quite as firm as well.

Will have to give the Brembo fluid a try next time.

 

With my race car (2350 lbs, lots of tire, decent aero, ~310 crank HP), I can typically go 7 race weekends between flushes and I flush then only because I feel like I should, not because it feels like I need to. I currently use Ate Type 200 and I have never had any issues with brakes. This includes races at Laguna Seca, Sears, Point, and Thunderhill.

I have wondered if I might like the brake feel and performance more with a better fluid. Since I have had no issues, I have never pulled the trigger and tried better fluid. I guess I should to find out.

 

*** hoc ergo propter hoc

classic, corrlation doesnt prove causation

did you see the compressibilitiy numbers, hot or ambient?
both fluids compared to each other are 99.9996% the same.

(read that number again out loud )

you are talking about feeling the difference of two fluid that are basically the same as far as compressibility. if you are feeling it, its not due to the fluid's compressibility difference!

you say boiling point is more of a marketing act, but actually, the compressibiltiy differences is more marketing than anything else.. however, the brake fluid companies dont even go there. this thread is going there!

EDIT: you quoted SFR is lower by 20degreeF.. (or near 10degreeC)..... and made a point of it with a "!"
Those figures from Brembo are IDENTICAL to SRF. 280C vs 280C. as tested by the lab... so i doubt it is much better from that perpective.

If this is true, then your fluid is best for boiling and that is a big factor , for sure. hygroscopic performance is another issues and thats very hard to tell. i suppose a test with same driver, track, car, pads and conditions could find the point where you get boiling for one fuild vs another, but thats a near impossible task wouldnt you think.

dont feed the faith healers here, you know the compressibility values of one vs the others is like a very famailar networking /Data example. your a networking technology guy, so this should put it in perspective:
for MPEG Video, do you think if someone said they could see the difference below would you say its not possible?

same scale of things as the brake fluid compressibility

661 errors out of 12,727,848 mpeg packets. 12,727,187 good packets. Error
> rate = 5.19e-05

if an additional 100 (20% change, same as max brake fluid differnces ) packets were misssing could you compare the two video streams and "see " a difference?

we are talking about a difference here of 100 on the scale of 12,000,000!!
the two video streams would be .999999% the same!




this has been my experience as well. going from ATE Blue to the Torque's, stoptech and now SRF.. it just seems i can go longer between changes.
and you know my car and how hard it is on brakes. 3000lbs (700lbs heavier than yours), lots of tire and little brakes. i never boil brake flud, even with my fading issues last season . that was a pad and rotor issue.

 

Semper ubi sub ubi...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkWSnMpiTQ

 

Mark you complain about people attacking and bullying you but I fail to see how the above statement does anything but encourage that.

Just state your opinion or experience and move on. A race has winners. I forum doesn't. Just share your information and experience and let others have contrary opinions. Everyone is trying really hard to clean up this forum and make it more productive.

I have Motul600 in one car and SRF in my track car. They are both the same year make and model and I've had both on the track. The SRF seemed to have a little better feel to it. Whether it actually did or not is irrelevant to me. I will continue to use it with confidence.

 

BRAKE!! TURN!! EARLY APEX? Let's focus on a healthy forum. We are lucky to have such special contributors to our community. Thanks Slakker

 

Edited: I agree, the amount of knowledge and experience on this forum is astounding.

 

no- I hadn't seen your reply and jumped on with an addition to my comment. I'm for learning and contributing on this forum. It's important to me and if someone like Veloce is disrespected & I know his credentials I will be "arrogant" against any trolls

 

OK, I have to ask. Per this link you are a Brembo partner/dealer. I could not find SRF mentioned anywhere, even as a comparison. No flame, but are you willing to share your data between the two; not just trust me posts.

 

Pretty safe to believe it IMO. Three days of club racing on a tight track with two and a half year old SRF (in a dual-use street track car and we have a wet and humid climate). Never bled in those two and a half years. Twice, people came up to me to tell me my rotors were glowing bright red in the middle of a bright summer day so the brakes were certainly getting up to temperature. And no, of course you shouldn't run SRF past the 2 year limit on the bottle but between a last minute rotor swap when those ordered previously didn't arrive and a midnight double oil change, sleep was going to do more for my safety than the plannned swap out of the SRF.

My Turbo is hard on brakes - they run about 20 percent hotter than GT3s running similar times - so I'd only go back to something else if it had the temperature handling of SRF, the maintenance free endurance of it and also had better pedal feel than SRF. I went to steel braided brake lines to compensate for a slightly spongier pedal feel as it didn't feel quite as direct and linear as RBF600 until things got hot enough for RBF to start going off -at which point SRF was streets ahead. Most others (GT3s etc) would probably run fine with regularly cycled RBF600 (with better feel) and the like but I was previously starting to boil fresh RBF and sometimes having to bleed between runs.

Just one data point - YMMV etc etc

 

Then you have come for the right place and i have tried to contribute over 20 years of experience here, to the list to help folks from re-inventing the wheel
Dave has some great points, but his perpective and knowledge is somewhat limited in some areas. (as with most of us) thats where many of us can fill in the gaps.
yes, you are right, but when dave makes a nonsense post, i feel that someone needs to make one of equally 0 meaning as well. shouldnt have done that , so i will refrain in the future. thanks for the efforts to clean thing up here. after all, its really about increasing the knowledge of the group and create a welcome place for questions and answers.

you saw the comparison between the brembo vs the SRF. looked like the compressibility factor is not going to be a factor in any sense, based on the amount of compressibility of any brake fluid. however the boiling points, specifically the wet boiling point is going to determine if you will get some air in the lines when things get that hot in the calipers. most tracks allow for cooling of the brake calipers and boiling is a characteristic of most of the newer drivers.

based on my experience, i find that all the top fluids perform well in this department. there is little reason why one vs the other willl be better based on compresiblity and if someone feels something different, and its not based on a boilled brake fluid, then i would tend to say its due to something else. As i clearly showed, most of the brake fluid are 99.9999% the same, even with a 20% compressibilty difference. many share your opinion of SRF, as well as the fluids from brembo, Stoptech Torque, and a couple of others. i

 

related question:

once you open a bottle of fluid - how long till you toss it if you don't use it? Generally if I'm going to bleed the brakes, I like to draw out the fluid that's sitting in the master cylinder and use a fresh bottle if the open bottle I have is more than a couple weeks old. to me it seems overly cautious, so I thought I'd ask what other people use as their operating procedures. once you've opened a bottle of brake fluid, how long till it's trash?

similarly, do you always bleed between weekends/events or only once your pedal starts to get spongy (from the above, you can guess that I always bleed)?

 

It depends on the fluid type, the humidity on the day it was opened, how long it was left open, how much fluid was swapped for air, and how it was stored after resealing. I try to pick nice dry days where possible (easy with SRF as I seldom need to touch it) to top up and I put the resealed bottle inside a sealed plastic bag with a few sachets of dessicant scrounged from parcels. That way, at most only the moisture from the little bit of air that entered the bottle can enter the fluid. SRF has a high capacity for neutralizing water and is good for 2 years in use in the more humid environment of a car's brake system so I'd happily store it just as long in the above manner.

If I had another high temp fluid without the water neutralizing additives in SRF, and it was opened and reclosed quickly (within say 5 minutes) on a dry day I'd also happily store it for a year or so that way, with the dessicant bag around it, but on a wet humid day with the bottle open for more than a few minutes I'd personally be a bit less confident of using it for racing, especially if my brakes tended to run hot.

The above summarises my pre-existing superstitions around it, but I just checked into it a bit more scientifically too just in case I was giving anyone the wrong idea. Super wet air (saturated at 90 degrees F) holds only about 3 percent water by weight. Air is 700-800 times less dense than brake fluid, and brake fluid is considered 'wet' when it holds 3.7 percent water by weight.

So the moisture uptake in a brake can half fillled with even hot moist air is only going to be about a thousandth of its capacity to absorb water before hitting its wet boiling point. Or in other words, you'd need to refill a half empty can with fresh moist air about 1000 times before reaching its wet boiing point.

OK, when brake fluid is used the container gets waved around, picked up, put down a few times, so it will pick up moisture before getting resealed too, but even on a hot humid day I couldn't imagine that adding up to even a 20th of its water carrying capacity if it is not left open for too long.

The big problems should really only come from the container getting rained into, left open far too long (especially if raining or hot, humid and windy) or it being left improperly sealed over time, as it is very hygroscopic and tries to suck up atmospheric water like a super-sponge, and over time that adds up to wet, badly degraded fluid.

So having checked that now, I'll relax a bit more about what happens while it's open during use (rain aside), and stay paranoid about storing it well sealed with some dessicant.

For the bored/inquisitive;

http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/re...t-brake-fluid/

http://www.sector111.com/images/prod...ke%20Fluid.pdf

As for your other question, per previous post, I don't bleed my SRF but just replace it every two years (or try to) and I don't get spongy pedals anymore.

 

We will be more than happy to share data with you on this. Call us today and we will get it to you. Unfortunate this thread has gotten a little to argumentative for our taste which is ashame. so we will handle your request offline.