Veloce Raptor

You are exactly correct. It works well in the GT4 as well.

I concur with your comments to the OP, as well as the other comments from HoBo about abrupt throttle inputs. IMO, stability & traction control is what kept that car off the wall.

Mark...you can flail away and tilt at windmills, but the fact of the matter is that YOU HAVE NEVER DRIVEN A GT4 NOR EVER DRIVEN NJMP. Enjoy being an armchair warrior with all sorts of charts and graphs and other BS about your failboat 928 on 30 year old tires and the factory original suspension bushings and brake pads.

No single person has ever dispensed more incorrect and downright bad and DANGEROUS advice here than you. In nearly every thread, as many many MANY people have pointed out, you are not only dead wrong but are dispensing "advice" that can get someone badly hurt or worse. A calculator is irrelevant here: you're advocating WOT at 6500 RPM with 90+ degrees steering angle in that car? A car you've never driven? ARE YOU NUTS????

Look inward, son.

To the OP, smooth flow of hands and feet and wide radii are your friends. The less drama you can induce into the chassis, and the less weight transfer, the better. Ignore Mark's nonsense here, and get somebody really good and SMOOTH to drive your car, with you as a passenger, and you will understand. I suspect they will be in one gear higher than you in a lot of places there...and going MUCH faster. It may be one of the most valuable things you ever do on track.

mark kibort

Dave, anyone here that has driven that track or any car with similar hp curves will see my point. those turn exits are at WOT. period. and they are not 90 degree turn angle, they are angles that anyone would see exiting those turns. i gave the screen captures of other turns near that same turn angle and still WOT on the exits.... BUT, at near max HP levels.... not even a wiggle.

you are just being ridiculous .... you cant admit the OP is in too tall a gear for several turns to optimize his exits and thus control into the turns as well. hey... ive had no issues with this kind of instruction or practice.
i dont think a single person would disagree with what i presented. ive backed it with solid evidence and factual information.

here are the screen shots. the OP himself, actually driving two other corners in the same gear but at the higher HP levels. 150more HP but now at the proper RPM levels.

Veloce Raptor

Mark, stop being an obstinate dunce. Are you blind too?

Look at the steering angle in your latter two screen shots, at WOT and high RPM. Compare with steering angle at WOT at lower RPM in the first screen shots. Attempting those steering angles at WOT at the high RPM of the latter shots would not end well.

Most intermediate and above drivers know this. Even the op knows this.

Apparently you do not.

Please please please stop dispensing "advice"
that will put someone in the wall.

MSR Racer

I have this same issue at many turns in my 996 cup: ROad Atlanta 10A-B for instance. It is better to stay in 3rd and carry more entry and mid corner speed and gently apply throttle and WOT as I unwind the steering up the hill. Motor is very peaky with power range at 6000-8000k but I can't do a mid corner downshift without unsettling the car or overs-slowing it. So 3rd it is. I have seen some pro drivers do very late down shifts though.

Simple arithmetic, it ain't!!!

Veloce Raptor

A very valid point. IMO the risk and disadvantage of over slowing is huge. If you can carry more throttle position for more real estate of the segment with total stability, that's a huge advantage.

Veloce Raptor

And forgot to add that carrying that higher entry speed raises vMin notably as well, and you'll be at it for fewer feet if you are able to get back to throttle quickly. All huge advantages

MSR Racer

VR, thanks for maintaining saner counsel on this forum that we all enjoy so much!

To your point about offering generic advice on cars that you have never driven before, I have too many bad stories to tell from a short carrier motorsports!!
We have to be careful with what we tell newbies. Lot of tips work when you are driving the 6/10ths but as you approach the limit, some of these cars can be very forgiving!! I saw a GT4CS go into the wall recently because of a ill-conceived change driver/team made to the car!!

Veloce Raptor

Thanks and +1

RallyeChris

I literally just got out of a GT4 at NJMP 16 hours ago. That car pulls very well from 3500rpms. And, I agree. Leaving it in a higher gear is better than making the additional down, then up, shift on a few parts of NJMP (both T-Bolt and Lightning) in that car - and many other cars as well.

mmuller

As someone who has won 3 race's there in a SPB, leaving it in the higher gear and maintaining a higher corner speed and exit as a result is the way to go.

Mark is just flat out wrong (as usual). Even in my highly modified 6GT3 with a lower R&P, keeping it the higher gear is a better end result.

MarcD147

lots of good feedback and guidance in this thread. I also got some high quality private feedback.
I really like the string between steering wheel/throttle analogy... I need to work on this as well as smoother/linear break throttle application. (besides the million other things :-) )

my reason for being in the higher gear is that I did a ridealong with an instructor in his GT4 and he was using the higher gears ( as he was going 2s faster he was also grabbing 4th a few times where I stayed in 3rd); fewer gear changes was a conscious decision I made and instead I tried to focus more on being smooth and consistent with lines. A majority on this thread seem supported of this approach.


Question: What is a good way to practice linear, smooth throttle and brake application? Especially getting on and off brake in a smooth linear way is something I find very hard.
both (safe) street and track exercises/ideas are welcome

linzman

When you are starting out, there are an overwhelming number of things to think about. As you gain experience through more seat time, some of these things will become second nature. As that happens, you can start focusing on new things until they become second nature, etc. Smooth braking and acceleration transitions will come with time. If it were too easy, we'd all be pro racers.

mark kibort

its like you have never been in a race car.. those steering angles do not tell the entire story , and they are very close anyway.

lets get to the main point here. you get your panties in a wad when anyone offers advice that you dont agree with and/or understand.

i offered a suggesting to be in a lower gear for a couple of turns, for better entrance control and better power management on the exit. PERIOD.

lets not boil the oceans trying argue this.

Its a plain fact that the OP will have more acceleration forces on the exit and he has plenty of grip in those screen shots to do so. lets not be chicken little here! he could easily be at those same positions on the track and have it in a lower gear without issue. im sure he will try it at some point as he was just mirrroring his instructor and not focused on maximizing lap time in this session. i was suggesting this as a next step. nothing dangerous about it. its called car control! (and learning!)

Lets give it a rest as you are not going to give an inch on this.

Just like you think its ok to blow a brake line and coast through a past the turn in neutral, and try and find an exit gate chain link fence to blow through like dukes of hazard!

Veloce Raptor

Just stop.

Gary R.

Hate to do it but i'm putting him on ignore, just can't stomach the nonsense any longer...