What is the "Appropriate" level of Safety Gear for a "Drive to the Track" car?
#16
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This one.
#18
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I have taken to wearing my firesuit in most DE. At the very least I wear a fire retardant long sleeve shirt.
Fire and injury does not know it is only a practice.
Fire and injury does not know it is only a practice.
#19
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Hot fluids, debris coming inside the passenger compartment... Many reasons for a barrier layer. Why I don't wear open face helmets in closed cars, too.
I have been in two cars that caught fire, one electrical and one big engine blowup (mid-engine car).
Glad I had a suit, gloves and gear on and the small handheld help knock things down until the good guys got there...
DE in both instances.
I have been in two cars that caught fire, one electrical and one big engine blowup (mid-engine car).
Glad I had a suit, gloves and gear on and the small handheld help knock things down until the good guys got there...
DE in both instances.
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#20
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I've carefully considered this as I drive my car to the track. Due to my relatively short (31.5") inseam I have to sit fairly forward in my 951, that would put me uncomfortably close to the front hoop on a rollcage.
So I went with a welded rollbar instead, I'm not a fan of the bolt in rollbars, they attach to the weakest parts of the car and can easily punch through. Google for the images of the mustang that rolled at Hallett, the rollbar punched through the floor completely, those guys are lucky to be alive.
I also welded in the harness mounts.
So I have a:
#1 welded rollbar with SFI padding
#2 welded harness mounts
#3 6 point harnesses
#4 full face helmet
#5 fixed back seats (Recaro SPG XL's on Recaro sliders) passenger seat all the way back
#6 HANS
#7 Halon fire extinguisher, mostly due to organization requiements.
I agree that if my car is on fire, I'm not reaching for my extinguisher, I'm bailing out of the car.
For the first time ever, I had car to car contact on track. What I thought happened in my head was very different than what I saw on video. It got me seriously considering at least adding door bars to my rollbar. If I hadn't been more aware I would've been hit directly in the drivers door instead of in the back of the drivers rear quarter panel.
I haven't done it yet as I'd have to delete the speaker panels/armrest and at that point I may was well go to a full cage...
So I went with a welded rollbar instead, I'm not a fan of the bolt in rollbars, they attach to the weakest parts of the car and can easily punch through. Google for the images of the mustang that rolled at Hallett, the rollbar punched through the floor completely, those guys are lucky to be alive.
I also welded in the harness mounts.
So I have a:
#1 welded rollbar with SFI padding
#2 welded harness mounts
#3 6 point harnesses
#4 full face helmet
#5 fixed back seats (Recaro SPG XL's on Recaro sliders) passenger seat all the way back
#6 HANS
#7 Halon fire extinguisher, mostly due to organization requiements.
I agree that if my car is on fire, I'm not reaching for my extinguisher, I'm bailing out of the car.
For the first time ever, I had car to car contact on track. What I thought happened in my head was very different than what I saw on video. It got me seriously considering at least adding door bars to my rollbar. If I hadn't been more aware I would've been hit directly in the drivers door instead of in the back of the drivers rear quarter panel.
I haven't done it yet as I'd have to delete the speaker panels/armrest and at that point I may was well go to a full cage...
#21
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-Mike
#22
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In the end the final arbiter of "enough" is you. I think I came pretty close to the best compromise possible for a dual purpose car.
- Otherwise stock E36 M3
- Retained air bags
- Bolt in roll bar
- Sparco Ergo Halo seats with removable halos
- 6 point Schroth harnesses
- Driver's seat on slider to ease egress (I could still get out with seat fully forward)
- Passenger seat mounted all the way back
- Two fire extinguishers mounted to roll bar
- Simpson R3 head and neck restrain (a Hans would work as well)
This video made me decide to budget a Hans into my roll bar/seats/harnesses budget.
#23
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I drive a street car to DE's and wear a helmet on track. My thoughts are that a three pt belt and airbag are appropriate but fully aware that there are no backup airbags to protect in a rollover or other multi impact event.
#24
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Unfortunately there is no "middle ground"... what's good for the track is bad for the street, and vice-versa... it's either 0 or 100... no in between.
Some of the world's best engineers design safety systems on modern cars
Either build a dedicated track car with full race equipment, or take your stock street car to the track, and learn to drive.
Anything in between is dangerous.
Some of the world's best engineers design safety systems on modern cars
Either build a dedicated track car with full race equipment, or take your stock street car to the track, and learn to drive.
Anything in between is dangerous.
#25
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I take your point about compromises, but that's probably overly dramatic.
Nothing is binary - a properly mounted roll bar, harnesses and
Hans can unquestionably augment safety in an otherwise 'street' car.
Best,
Matt
Nothing is binary - a properly mounted roll bar, harnesses and
Hans can unquestionably augment safety in an otherwise 'street' car.
Best,
Matt
#26
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But physics is physics and a system is a system, and every element of a race-car safety system has a specific role to play... take one element out, an its not a system.
Without a HANS device, racing harnesses can cause a fatal basal skull fracture (your body decelerates much faster than your head... and your neck isn't strong enough)
Without a full-containment seat, racing harnesses can cause a fatal lateral neck injury (you accelerate laterally, and the shoulder harness breaks your neck).
Gees... Joe Garage wizard is just smarter than professional engineers.
#27
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This FIA approved HANS-with-3-point-belt system is interesting: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybri...lt-compatible/
Apologies if this has been beaten to death, but (after a search) it doesn't seem to have been discussed much.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Karl.
Apologies if this has been beaten to death, but (after a search) it doesn't seem to have been discussed much.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Karl.
#28
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Unfortunately there is no "middle ground"... what's good for the track is bad for the street, and vice-versa... it's either 0 or 100... no in between.
Some of the world's best engineers design safety systems on modern cars
Either build a dedicated track car with full race equipment, or take your stock street car to the track, and learn to drive.
Anything in between is dangerous.
Some of the world's best engineers design safety systems on modern cars
Either build a dedicated track car with full race equipment, or take your stock street car to the track, and learn to drive.
Anything in between is dangerous.
For example, a 911S is basically a 911 with some enhancements to suspension, motor, and brakes, but the safety systems are essentially identical. Would you say that a stock 911 S is somehow more dangerous to drive on track than a stock base 911? Of course not.
I think that the issue of dual purpose car safety gear is not something that really lends itself to easy one-size-fits-all hard and fast rules.
#29
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This FIA approved HANS-with-3-point-belt system is interesting: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybri...lt-compatible/
Apologies if this has been beaten to death, but (after a search) it doesn't seem to have been discussed much.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Karl.
Apologies if this has been beaten to death, but (after a search) it doesn't seem to have been discussed much.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Karl.
#30
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Without a HANS device, racing harnesses can cause a fatal basal skull fracture (your body decelerates much faster than your head... and your neck isn't strong enough)
Without a full-containment seat, racing harnesses can cause a fatal lateral neck injury (you accelerate laterally, and the shoulder harness breaks your neck).
Without a full-containment seat, racing harnesses can cause a fatal lateral neck injury (you accelerate laterally, and the shoulder harness breaks your neck).
VERY popular among the DE set, locally. Elegant solution.