Veloce Raptor

+1

TXE36

Yep. And we had two of these last weekend at TWS. A BMW into the tires and a Corvette into the T15 wall. BMW was still drivable, the 'vette had relatively minor damage, but it went home on a roll back.

I'm going to need update my preflight brief. My student was very confused by my sudden "pull over there (pointing off line) and stop - now!" command after checking our six. Probably worth a few words along with the two feet in spin and drive straight off if dropping a wheel advice.

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

They should be receiving EXPLICIT red flag instructions in the drivers meeting.

TXE36

Yeah, well...

I don't know if it was missed in classroom, I do know my student went. This guy was a green-green and I think that first weekend download can be overwhelming. Maybe this is just as good as it gets as there was nothing obviously wrong from our position at T7 other than the red flag, as the incident was up at T15.

I'll have a post up tonight about why it's important to tape the leading edge of magnetic numbers .

-Mike

ProCoach

I'm shocked. Red Flag procedure should be (and is, by most experienced tracks) reserved ONLY for incidents that require bringing EVERY car on track under control IMMEDIATELY!

In thirty years, I can count on ONE hand how many red flags I have seen in several HUNDRED DE's and track days, TWO hands including racing (and people passed away on those occasions).

Red Flag is supposed to be reserved for incidents that BLOCK the track or do NOT allow safe passage back to the pits by drivers on-track.

While several programs I have seen use red-flag DRILLS, this really needs to be kept only as a LAST resort...

Black Flag All would have been the appropriate call for the TWS incidents, it sounds like...

Sheesh...

TXE36

Perhaps for the BMW in the tire wall, but the Corvette was blocking the pit entry. I do feel red flags are pretty dangerous in and of themselves and need to be restricted to only when needed - I don't think red flag drills are even appropriate.

-Mike

Circuit Motorsports

Red Flags are poorly taught.

The do NOT need to be a RIGHT EFFING NOW.

They need to be a slow down, get off the line and come to a stop within view of a flag station.

A red flag should not be a big deal.

winders

...and where others coming from behind can see you for a while in case they missed the red flag.

Veloce Raptor

Or when control believes the incident is potentially serious enough to require unhindered expedited code 3 access by emergency personnel, without the other cars still circulating under Black.

Misdirection

We are getting a little off topic, but I would say with regard to Red Flag: I dislike that at COTA different organizations have had different red flag procedures. I have experienced one group where Red Flag was proceed safely into the pit. Another group it was stop. Maybe that was just when COTA was figuring things out. In the case where we stopped, there was a car on fire that they were having trouble extinguishing, so I think that could qualify for red flag, no?

Circuit Motorsports

Different sets of flagging rules have different meanings for red flags. It sucks.

Veloce Raptor

I may be wrong but I believe COTA itself uses the FIA definition of red flag procedure. Sometimes groups renting the track like PCA, etc over-ride that and use their own.

CosmosMpower

I think fixed back seat, 6 pt harness, OEM club sport roll bar and a CF hans and fire extinguisher is about the right level of safety for a street driven car in an advanced/instructor run group in a HPDE.

Matt Romanowski

It's FIA versus club flagging. Some of the pro series and many European series use the red flag to bring people into the pits. I don't think their are any clubs in the US that use FIA flags, but I could be wrong.

ExMB

DOT vs CS roll bar. Please explain legal issues and how to meet.

You opened that door.