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Flat Out DE at Fontana

 
Old 06-25-2015, 09:10 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
The new Z06 is a fantastic car no doubt. The heat issues will be worked out by the GM engineers, but is anyone else impressed that the GT3 with 175 less hp was not getting swamped by the Z06 on the straights? One can argue exit speed etc, but I expected the Z06 to blitz the GT3
Heat Soak and a conservative ECU tune to keep the motor alive (pulling tons of timing) are a well known issue for the Z06

http://jalopnik.com/2015-corvette-z0...-to-1669754727

It's a supercharger efficiency thing in general...it's very very hard to control intake temps. My E55 is the same way. I've logged runs on that car doing 40-140 pulls and even with an upgraded heat exchanger I get one 40-140 pull on that car before it starts to pull timing. After 3 back to back pulls it shuts down the superchager completely (electric clutch on the pulley).

...and the GT3 is consistently on the gas sooner...and the 991 GT3's are sneaky fast!
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:10 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by AudiOn19s View Post
Heat Soak and a conservative ECU tune to keep the motor alive (pulling tons of timing) are a well known issue for the Z06

http://jalopnik.com/2015-corvette-z0...-to-1669754727

It's a supercharger efficiency thing in general...it's very very hard to control intake temps. My E55 is the same way. I've logged runs on that car doing 40-140 pulls and even with an upgraded heat exchanger I get one 40-140 pull on that car before it starts to pull timing. After 3 back to back pulls it shuts down the superchager completely (electric clutch on the pulley).

...and the GT3 is consistently on the gas sooner...and the 991 GT3's are sneaky fast!
Makes sense. I tracked my 2003 Jaguar XJR a few times and it felt like it lost power as the session went on - especially on hot days. I think the water in the intercooler just got heated up and the intercooler radiator and circulation pump just couldn't shed the heat fast enough.

And that motor is not nearly as high strung as the new 'vette. IIRC, boost is only 6 PSI or so and it only makes 390HP.

-Mike
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:19 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by TXE36 View Post

No way in hell I would ride right seat like that.

-Mike
Being relatively new, I've pondered the question of high HP cars for novice drivers. Is there a precedent where HPDE organizers implement guidelines for limiting maximal HP for in-car instructors with an inexperienced driver?
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:46 PM
  #94  
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no. Instructor's responsibility to keep driver in check. I find ballpine hammer effective. Or as I recently learned- some new hand signals - no communicator needed.
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:04 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
They even do this across the Atlantic....



by mid-day, its half a dirt track!
We all can thank Top Gear et al about this idiotism. This is also one of the reasons I wish Channel traffic would be one-way only...towards that God-forgotten island. Too many of those fooling around at Nürburgring.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:34 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Dr911 View Post
Being relatively new, I've pondered the question of high HP cars for novice drivers. Is there a precedent where HPDE organizers implement guidelines for limiting maximal HP for in-car instructors with an inexperienced driver?
One of the facets of a high quality Instructor Training School (ITS) is learning how to deal with idiots like this and remaining firmly in control of the car. The ITS instructors who role play "bad students" are very good at their job.

The first thing that hit me about this video was cripes! - those types of students are real??!??! Always wondered how much exaggeration there was. Fortunately, bad students like this one are very rare. This type of driver needed to be fitted with a choke chain pulled very hard - he wouldn't have lasted more than a few turns like that with me.

The creeping performance of today's road cars has made instructing more challenging. One way to deal with it is to lock the transmission in 3rd or 4th. With proper lines and control smoothness, that's enough to be very quick in the beginner run groups. As the student listens and improves, shifting can be put back in.

All that said, I don't think the right seat passenger in the video was an instructor. Makes me scratch my head how an organization would let a guy with two track days of experience take a friend for a joy ride. Recipe for "hold my beer and watch this" shenanigans.

-Mike
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:45 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Dr911 View Post
Being relatively new, I've pondered the question of high HP cars for novice drivers. Is there a precedent where HPDE organizers implement guidelines for limiting maximal HP for in-car instructors with an inexperienced driver?
Without a doubt, I used to hate getting assigned to middle, hairy chested, gold rope wearing American muscle driving . . . Viper, Z06 et al. . .

As an instructor, you get control of the situation quickly. I cannot recall ever having a student that was out of control in 10 + years of instructing, except maybe some guys running out of control at Skippy on Laguna Seca . . ., but I was not in the car with them and they were dealt with.

Last edited by Doug H; 06-29-2015 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:37 AM
  #98  
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Want exciting in the right seat? Try NASA. I use to love the "thrill"- Not any more. We got the NE under control but then myself and my associate left them for numerous reasons. No longer accepting Instructors by referral from them for other associated groups in NE. I did notice very inconsistent drving this week at a PCA event in the Black group. Maybe it's time for them to put surprise Instructors back into all intermediate and advanced groups for a run . Also "RED" flag drills. There was a bad incident recently at NJMP. .
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:23 PM
  #99  
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:-( private video? won't let me view….
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Old 06-28-2015, 09:22 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Bull_D View Post
:-( private video? won't let me view….
Post #81 has a working link.
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:24 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Gofishracing View Post
Want exciting in the right seat? Try NASA. I use to love the "thrill"- Not any more. We got the NE under control but then myself and my associate left them for numerous reasons. No longer accepting Instructors by referral from them for other associated groups in NE. I did notice very inconsistent drving this week at a PCA event in the Black group. Maybe it's time for them to put surprise Instructors back into all intermediate and advanced groups for a run . Also "RED" flag drills. There was a bad incident recently at NJMP. .
I think that would be a great idea.

I'm a big fan of being strict with promotions to higher DE run groups. Early on I resented being stuck with an instructor in the lower run groups. Now I pay professionals to ride with me!

The simple fact is many people are promoted before they are ready and cause problems for other people in their run groups. Its too easy to dismiss these problems as fast cars vs. slow cars but I actually think it is a driving skill and situational awareness issue. If you are in a higher run group and can't figure out a place to let me safely pass you aside from the straight perhaps you should not be in that run group!

Again, I think everyone should be subject to an impromptu ride-along with an instructor if they are consistently doing something wrong. Accountability is the key.
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Old 06-29-2015, 12:59 AM
  #102  
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I love it when he lays on the horn
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:32 PM
  #103  
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Here's some more track-based on the horn and enraged entertainment. Most of the comedy is at the end though at about the 8:00 mark. Guy has some skill this time around however.


On a side note - thoughts on this new "Track Nights in America" thing the SCCA is doing? Think it could be actually both a good idea and good fun if policed properly.. Wouldn't mind a go myself at some point in all honesty.
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