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Amazing how many armchair quarterbacks we have here.
Peak speed on thhat straight was 152 MPH for Mr. Bell just before brake failure. He was able to get the car slowed to 136 MPH at impact. I would say he is anything but an idiot, given how little real estate in which he accomplished this...
Agreed. When I saw the video I had total respect for the driver and his ability. Shake his hand, welcome him back to earth, buy him a beer, but don't judge or analyze him...
Besides, it was probably was a lot colder at that point in the race and he didn't realize how much extra horsepower his engine was making... so he panicked, snapped an axle, then the brakes failed, then he asked ColourChange for a G-Sum analysis before parking the car in the best possible spot with the best possible angle.
Agreed. When I saw the video I had total respect for the driver and his ability. Shake his hand, welcome him back to earth, buy him a beer, but don't judge or analyze him...
No one called him an idiot and no one judged him. I see nothing wrong with questions and analysis about what could one potentially do to lessen the negative impact of such a malfunction when it happens.
No one called him an idiot and no one judged him. I see nothing wrong with questions and analysis about what could one potentially do to lessen the negative impact of such a malfunction when it happens.
Originally Posted by mark kibort
if so, hes an idiot if he didn't dive for the key or off switch, or put the clutch in.
Out of context perhaps... but this is what I reacted too...
No one called him an idiot and no one judged him. I see nothing wrong with questions and analysis about what could one potentially do to lessen the negative impact of such a malfunction when it happens.
exactly.... some want to learn, evaluate, discuss , others want to mock.
and yes, IF he had a stuck throttle, he would be an idiot for not diving for the key, but we all know that is not what happened. plus, the brakes can easily overpower stuck throttle to make more of an effect in speed change than what was seen in the video.
You don't have to imagine anything. Here are some facts:
For consistency, you should also be laughing at anything newer than this:
Hello hf1,
Speaking of consistency, where's the list of those accidents where the drivers walked away with no issues and for the sake of accuracy, no Hans device in the world would have saved Senna or Ratzenberger....
Follow me now... !
I'm not against safety or Hans, actually I'm very big on safety , when at the track in any capacity. What I'm against is your type of knee jerk reaction because someone choose not to wear one, driving stupid with limited talent, kills , driving stupid with same talent and Hans still kills and for the record, i was at the Miami GP in 88 when Downing was promoting the Hans, he was the only driver wearing one, they all survived that day and we all knew it's benefits as explained, racing drivers are a rare breed, safety means the car will turn and no snap oversteer ..
I'm also tuned into the cognitive dissonance allowing drivers to race at 230 mph against a concrete wall and figure a hans is the way to save them, someone doing DE in their street car is no different than pounding around on the street , do you wear a Hans to work ...?
Maybe you are reading into this all too much , I'm more interested in the driving integrity of the car and driver than if he decides not to wear a Hans device in a DE...
You can safely simulate a brake line failure by opening a bleeder. Crack a bleeder, drive it at 15mph then stomp the pedal. If there's no stopping at all then I'd call that unacceptable, personally...
that's the one I was referring too! he didn't blip and shift, it would have been a much kinder crash!
no Hans device in the world would have saved Senna…...
Completely unprovable in the case of Senna. In fact, there's a not insignificant chance that the hans would've changed the angle of impact between his helmet and the suspension piece that penetrated it enough to deflect or not result in a fatal injury.
What angle was his head at when the pushrod pierced his helmet, how would the hans have affected the outcome...My intended point was no Hans would have stopped the pushrod, so pure conjecture of what angle Senna's head was at when the incident happened
Who cares if people laugh? You're smart to be as safe as you can be while on track. baddogz- your 997 is faster than 60% of the cars at your average club race, and your car doesn't know if your racing or doing a DE when you screw up or something breaks and you hit something. The Chicago Region PCA has a huge DE at Road America every Memorial Day weekend, and I swear, the first session every year someone wads up a street GT3. We're all responsible for ourselves, so do what makes you comfortable. Understand that there are some people here that have a lot of experience and have experienced some bad stuff on race tracks, myself included, and just like to see people be as safe as possible. YMMV.
Totally agree and I understand that the safety talk from you guys is well-meaning. I just don't appreciate when it goes from informative to preachy... We're all adults here, and everybody will use their own judgement, for better or worse, in their safety prep for AX up thru DE to actual racing.
Now, that being said, I put a lot of stock what people who are more experienced than me have to say... So I appreciate the opinions.
change of subject...does anyone know of an easy retro fit to go from a stock 88 g50 single reservoir to a dual reservoir, possibly dual MC setup ? ( +/- brake bias control not really required for me yet..)
like one that does not require fabrication of a mounting box, etc like the old school tilitons require.
i seem to recall a thread either here or on pp about such a system
That sudden loss of all brake systems is just sickening ... and scary... I am only a DE guy so far but have full cage and every conceivable safety device ..except a brake backup ( my E-brake is removed)
I AM GETTING THIS if i can find it..
I also experienced this feeling at sebring last year in worst place .. the paddock... i changed brake pads (after driving straight thru from philly to sebring at night before DMTD in jan..very tired ) i compressed all pistons completely , popped the pads in , started car and gunned it in paddock ..when pedal went to floor .. pedestrians everywhere scary as HELL..manage to steer clear and into staging area near T17 without hitting anything before i got some pedal pressure ... ugh!!
What angle was his head at when the pushrod pierced his helmet, how would the hans have affected the outcome...My intended point was no Hans would have stopped the pushrod, so pure conjecture of what angle Senna's head was at when the incident happened
Talk about unprovable ....
reread the post. i don't know whether a hans could've saved Senna's life any more than you can know that it couldn't.
09-23-2014, 05:40 PM
