winders

There is no such "etiquette". Having someone else damage your car, with no remuneration, is a possibility you accept when you put your car on the track for a DE, Time Trail, or race event.

It's just the way it is......if it were any other way, only the rich would be on the track.

docwyte

To answer the previous question, pretty much none of the "regular" insurance policies will cover your car for any damage that occurs on a track surface. Regardless of whether it's a "DE" or not...

John's 991

Winders, I have to disagree. I have been in numerous DE's where the expectation is set at the drivers meeting that if there is car to car contact, then the person at fault pays. This is the etiquette/expectation, at least here in Nor Cal, but not the same as a law and is probably not enforceable. Or at least I have never heard of it going to court or something like that. I have heard at least one group say that they would black-list somebody who did not take care of it.

As I said before, in a race there is no such expectation, everybody is responsible for their car regardless of who's fault it is. Given the difference between DE's and races, it is possible to have different etiquette. However, I do agree that if somebody else is at fault in a DE, there is no guarantee that they will pay for it and you need to plan accordingly.

docwyte

Lots of situations where I can see that going sideways for the club. Who decides who was "at fault"? Is it binding? (Nope) What if debris or fluids were on the track? Who's at fault then? What if there's a mechanical failure? What if, what if, what if???

Don't go on track with the expectation that somebody will pay to fix your car. I was lucky and the fellow that hit me took care of it, without me saying anything. I still acted as if he wouldn't and sourced good used parts and did all the labor myself. Figured if he didn't pay me it minimized my out of pocket and if he did take care of it, it was a nice thing for me to do, so he didn't have to pay a ton of cash.

TXE36

Lockton coverage extends to instructors driving a covered student's car.

-Mike

RickBetterley

In 250 DE days of drivers meetings, I have yet to hear this.
But all of mine are in the Northeast. My hand would go up real fast if I heard this said.
Since I have been in the instructor version of those meetings almost exclusively for the last 10 years, I should ask - is the expectation being set in the non-instructor meetings? If so, I'd love to know that.

Matt Romanowski

I've never heard anything like this directly or indirectly at a drivers meeting, but I stay East of the Mississippi. No way I would agree to that when I've had multiple student's cars and been on track with cars that cost more than my house. Everyone is in for their own comfortable risk level.

Steamboat

Thanks for all of your considered replies but let me return to my original question: Do any of you have a specific liability policy that does not contain a track exclusion, or know of a company that would write one, that would rise to your defense should you be involved in some catastrophic situation?

The vagaries surrounding this issue are readily apparent to anyone who has given it any thought but are we as individuals really only left with the risk mitigation strategies of "whistling past the graveyard" or hoping that an event organizer's insurance or track insurance would cover us? As a retired old phart who can't financially start over again, I'm not sure those are sufficient protections. I've seen cars go hard into a wall, a car with an instructor-as-passenger take a car-totalling hard hit and we lost a friend and fellow driver in the club race last year so I'm attuned to the fact that in spite of best intentions, stuff truly can and does happen. Perhaps it's just time for me to slip away and take up croquette or something......

paradisenb

And stay off the freeways because the odds of a crash are greater there than on the track.

Steamboat

"And stay off the freeways because the odds of a crash are greater there than on the track."

Yea, but at least my auto insurance and umbrella liability policies are in effect. In theory, you enjoy better personal protection while street racing than while at the track. Go figure.....

Hella-Buggin'

I didn't get track insurance for my first few DE events and I felt fine about it. Then I had a close call with an unsure driver making a pass in an incredibly fast turbo at buttonwillow.
Now, I've decided that I'm going faster and closer to the limits as are the people I'm running with and that accidents can happen. I simple do one less event a year and that makes up the difference of having the insurance for the rest.

Steamboat

Mark,
Does your track insurance have a liability component and, if so, who underwrites it? The companies I have investigated will sell crash/vehicle repair insurance for your vehicle up to a pre-determined limit but that would not cover other involved cars nor will it defend the holder from costs associated with being sued. I'm really looking for something that would have limits ($1M-3M) similar to the umbrella policies most homeowners carry in addition to their actual homeowners policy.

Hella-Buggin'

It's my understanding that the track insurance covers my car up to the stated value.
Are you mainly worried about being sued if you're found at fault in a collision?

RickBetterley

I make my living as a risk management consultant, so I've tried to pay attention to these concerns. They are certainly legitimate.
First, all of my comments are offered for educational purposes and are general in nature. Feel free to get professional advice specific to your own situation.
I assume you are interested in the liability protection primarily. The standard personal liability forms vary from state to state but are subject to regulation, so for each insurer are probably consistent in a given state. But each state could be different from another.
On your policy, look for words like 'prearranged or organized racing, speed, stunting, or demolition contest or activity'.
Here in MA, there are limitations of coverage for these activities, but no absolute exclusions, surprisingly. However, the auto insurer is only covering me for autos that I own that I have listed on the policy (or temporary substitutes). So use of my dedicated track car isn't covered.
My umbrella policy has a specific exclusion added for any use of the specified track car. So that's pretty clear. There is also a general exclusion with the 'racing' language mentioned above.
So, look at the auto and umbrella policies and see about those wordings or similar and see if they are part of an exclusion.
I'll bet that there is no absolute standard practice with liability insurance to exclude on track activities, but since I don't have direct knowledge of all policies, I can't say for certain. If there is, it will be more likely to be on the umbrella policies, which is less regulated and where you get your catastrophe limits.
I would proceed on the basis that there is no liability coverage other than that provided by the event host, and hope to be pleasantly surprised if there is.
For physical damage coverage, it is unlikely your car is covered while on the racing surface, and you might get an argument about coverage anywhere in the track facility. But it's easy to by track insurance for physical damage.other than the cost, which isn't pleasant but also not outrageous.
A reminder - don't rely on this very casual and cursory overview. Ask your broker or agent to sit down and go over it with you. And challenge their thinking.
Or, whistle past the graveyard.

Steamboat

Mark, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'm mainly worried that a lawsuit and adverse judgement could be financially ruinous. I could handle writing off my car or repairing someone else's, though I wouldn't be pleased about it, but a 7-figure settlement would send me to the poor house which I have labored long and hard to avoid up to this point. I guess if you have 90% of your net worth tied up in your car you don't have too much to worry about or if you have sufficient resources, say a net worth north of $XX million, you can likely weather most tail events should one befall you. But for those of us, which is presumably most of us, somewhere in between those extremes, I would think that protecting ones assets to the fullest extent possible given the inherent risks in our sport, is an absolute must.