911 Rod

It's a bit different up here.
We don't sue people as it appears to be a regular thing in the U.S.
It is a race track no matter what they call the event. And you are on your own for what happens.

StoogeMoe

What happens if you're at Summit Point and a deer runs out in front of you and it takes out the whole front of the car. Do you expect to make the deer pay because it was his fault?

Remember to look over as I'm passing you. I'm a deer driving in the other car, but with a helmet on. You don't always know what I'm going to do.

Like others have said, anything can happen. It's up to you to be prepared to pay for the consequences, whether it's property or bodily damage.

RickBetterley

I assume you mean a policy you bought personally as opposed to group insurance? If so, read the policy and look for an exclusion for the activity you are undertaking (and no, that was not an intentional pun).
Usually, if you are engaging in what is perceived as a dangerous activity (better) when you apply for the policy, you will be charged a higher rate and/or have a limitation or exclusion placed on the policy.
If you don't see such exclusions, then you should be good. But rad the policy and get advice.
I'm not a life insurance guy; usually Marc (mhm993), who is, will weigh in.

mhm993

Yup, I usually answer the life insurance questions. Rick is our resident risk management expert.

The general answer is you're covered for a "track death" if you take up driving after you purchase insurance (I think that's the question).

You're responsible to answer the questions truthfully when applying for life insurance. They ask and may investigate your hazardous hobbies or health, by example.

If your health or hobbies change after the policy was issued, you're covered. As long as you pay the premiums in a timely manner, you're never asked the underwriting questions again, and have no responsibility to notify of changes.

If you were healthy at time of application and become hypertensive and subsequently die of a stroke, they cover you. Same, if you take up motor sports after the policy is issued, and then die, they cover you.

Individual policies don't currently have an exclusion for hazardous avocation claims, to my experience. Of course, if you already participate in a hazardous hobby at time of application, you must disclose, and occassionally may be subject to a higher premium.

Of course, this is a generic answer on a public forum and YMMV.

Matt Romanowski

There are a few life insurance companies that advertise they have policies for people who race. I have no idea how much they add to the premium for it, but they exist.

RickBetterley

Marc knows who they are.
A point worth emphasizing, though - if you bought the policy before taking up driving, you probably don't have a racing exclusion.

btwyx

Who was running the event? I've never seen car to car contact at a DE.

John's 991

Btwyx, it was a joint Track Masters Racing and Speed Ventures event. I have been to their events before, and they are generally well run albeit casual. They expect the advanced groups (open passing) to know what they are doing, which I guess did not happen.

There were a bunch of SE30, Spec Miata and other race cars there, as they ran a race in the afternoon, and a lot of the guys were getting some extra time. However, IMO, that does not excuse car to car contact at a DE. I don't think there was any contact during the race, however.

btwyx

Trackmasters are generally quite reasonable in my experience, though as you say a bit casual. I wasn't fond of Speed Ventures when we tried them, having time trails in all groups (down to low intermediate) seemed like a very bad idea.

sbelles

Not necessarily true if it ends up in court.

mooty

i ran with EVERY norcal group in the last 10 years. NO driver's mtg or orangizer will every say that. certainly doug and aaron aren't stupid or naive enough to publicly say this during drivers meeting. no way.




true in DE we shodn't have contacts. but it really takes two to tango. both driver has to make mistake to have a fk up. when i fight with my sister at 5, no matter who instigated the issue, if one of us just simple walk away there will be no fight. in DE or racing no one in their right mind purposely hit each other... ok, senna did it a few times but he is God so let's ignore that for the moment. and if i should dive bomb you (not that i do), you should be aware enough to see my sutpidity and get out of my way and let me end my misery with the wall. if you didnt see me, then you are just as bad and stupid as i. so we BOTH made a mistake. SP T7 dive bombing has many meanings. if i am on the inside, i dont have to let off, i can round the turn on the inside, and if you insist on coming into the apex, we will make contact. but that's not me dive bombing. i am mearly taking the inside line and T7 can go 3 wide easily.

many ppl LOVES open passing. i drive in open group and also races. but i NEVER pass anyone in open group unless i know who u are and how well you drive or i get a very very clear signal otherwise i will just hang on your bumper. b/c the OTHER guy can very well be blind. really, a spec miata drove me off the striahgt b/n T8 and 9 at THill years ago and totalled a $100k GT3 race car. no he didn't pay. and i made a mistake too. i should have held the line and let him bounce off my fender rather than drive myself of the ditch and fly over the wall. when taking a car to track, you should expect that that money/car is already gone. otherwise, this is not a sport for you.

and most importantly pls do not kid yourself, DE or racing. if you havent' hit something, you will.
if you already hit something, you will hit again, and again.....

oh, if you mean by after the incident,the ppl involved shoudl come together and discuss and offer some labor help or simply say "sorry, man, i fkd up" yes, that's absolutely gentleman act. i would be pleased if the dude who hit me actually came to see me or the car aftewards.... i would nt have asked for money. but little acknowledgment would be fine. and that should be mandatory; not the financial thing.

winders

I've run some DE events with a few groups in Nor Cal and had never heard anything like that said in a driver's meeting either. I didn't think our area of the country had lost its marbles in this regard. Thank you for confirming it!

docwyte

As someone who got dive bombed and collected last year, I can say this with certainty. Sometimes you can't get out of the way. The guy passed the car behind me, then couldn't make the turn. I "felt" his presence and straightened the car up, hoping he'd either hold the inside line or straighten up and shoot in front of me. Neither bit happened. Situational awareness is necessary on the part of everyone on track, but assuming that everyone else is going to get out of your way when you do something stupid is ridiculous.

You shouldn't dive bomb anyone in a HPDE or even TT. It simply isn't appropriate. If you're doing something that stupid, you need to have an attitude check done before you head out on track.

John's 991

Moody, bmwcc used to (I have not run with them for awhile) as did Your Private track Day. I have not heard Speed Ventures or TMR say that.

Does that make it binding? Certainly not but does set an expectation and expected etiquette.

Steve113

Car to car contact during a DE should never be tolerated. DE is not a race and passing situations should always leave lots of room and lots of outs. DE is not a place where we can let egos go un checked. I think to many drivers today are more about speed then actual honing their technique. Cars are more capable today than 80% of the drivers because they are trying to drive too fast to soon. Learn the proper line first , learn the technique etc. let the speed develop naturally.

As for Liability issues . There is an inherent risk when you drive on the track. We sign hold harmlessness to prevent cross suits between drivers, instructors, clubs, track. Unfortunately they are only as good as the judges that read them. While they are very few and far between they have happened. As mentioned there are some insurance carriers with broader liability language then others. Chubb as someone suggested might pick up defense . Not guaranteed but they do have some of the broadest coverage available, Remember every state has different wording in their policies. Always ask you particular insurance agent.

I can tell you single car incidents do happen and unfortunately more then we think. In order for programs like mine and my competitor to survive we all must work together to make DE safer. Let’s face it HPDE is a big money maker for some clubs .If the ability to purchase physical damage coverage was not available there might be a lot less people willing to risk the vehicles.

Ok I said my piece sorry but before I even started the HPDE program my pet peeve was trying to get drivers and instructors to stop equating speed in DE to skill. Speed most of the time equates to just driving further over one’s head. Speed should be an end product and not the main ingredient.