On Track Financial Responsibility
06-09-2014, 04:29 PM
#91
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The number of times one driver is 100% "at fault" are rare. If you are then a percentage "at fault" who determines what percent? If I'm 50% "at fault" is it then even? What if your car is a Ferrari and mine is a jalopy? If we were both complicit do we split it by dollars or just we pay for each our own cars? What if you are determined to be more at fault but cannot afford or simply refuse to pay? Who enforces this? What if there was unseen fluid on the course?
Just way to many what if's to make this reasonable. You pay for your own damage. Period. It was your choice to show up in the $250k car not mine. If my bumper costs $50 to replace and yours $5000 this is not my issue it's yours....
I've only had ONE "my fault" contact in 13 years of wheel-to-wheel (minor tire-to-tire) but been punted 4-5 times so I'm not biased....
06-11-2014, 06:45 AM
#92
I've been doing DEs a very long time and I've never been in a drivers meeting where "fault" was discussed or expectations of payment were discussed, Ever... This a west coast thing?
The reality is that you shouldn't DE a car you can't afford to fix or write off.
The other comments with regard to students cars... I drive my students cars... ALL THE TIME... at LESS THAN 5/10ths... AND IN SLOW/LOW car count run groups. I do it for the simple reason that I know I am NOT going to drive their car off track and I know I am not going to be an asshat in their car. I've never understood why some instructor would jump in some students Ferrarilambovipercarreragt and go out to "show the student" he knows how to drive. You're there for THEM. Show them what you need to show them, then GET THEM BACK IN THE DRIVERS SEAT. Use your head, keep your ego in check and get the job done. I never understand why people say they won't do this. It should be no different than borrowing their car to run an errand. Nothing more, nothing less...I know, I know, some are going to say "you can't control what others do on track". For two laps at highway speeds? I'll take that chance. If it gets my student that much quicker on pace and up to speed, then again, check the ego, get some clean track and show him/her what needs to be shown. Common sense to me, and I know it's a personal choice, but it's just the way "I" see it.
The reality is that you shouldn't DE a car you can't afford to fix or write off.
The other comments with regard to students cars... I drive my students cars... ALL THE TIME... at LESS THAN 5/10ths... AND IN SLOW/LOW car count run groups. I do it for the simple reason that I know I am NOT going to drive their car off track and I know I am not going to be an asshat in their car. I've never understood why some instructor would jump in some students Ferrarilambovipercarreragt and go out to "show the student" he knows how to drive. You're there for THEM. Show them what you need to show them, then GET THEM BACK IN THE DRIVERS SEAT. Use your head, keep your ego in check and get the job done. I never understand why people say they won't do this. It should be no different than borrowing their car to run an errand. Nothing more, nothing less...I know, I know, some are going to say "you can't control what others do on track". For two laps at highway speeds? I'll take that chance. If it gets my student that much quicker on pace and up to speed, then again, check the ego, get some clean track and show him/her what needs to be shown. Common sense to me, and I know it's a personal choice, but it's just the way "I" see it.
Winders, I have to disagree. I have been in numerous DE's where the expectation is set at the drivers meeting that if there is car to car contact, then the person at fault pays. This is the etiquette/expectation, at least here in Nor Cal, but not the same as a law and is probably not enforceable. Or at least I have never heard of it going to court or something like that. I have heard at least one group say that they would black-list somebody who did not take care of it.
As I said before, in a race there is no such expectation, everybody is responsible for their car regardless of who's fault it is. Given the difference between DE's and races, it is possible to have different etiquette. However, I do agree that if somebody else is at fault in a DE, there is no guarantee that they will pay for it and you need to plan accordingly.
As I said before, in a race there is no such expectation, everybody is responsible for their car regardless of who's fault it is. Given the difference between DE's and races, it is possible to have different etiquette. However, I do agree that if somebody else is at fault in a DE, there is no guarantee that they will pay for it and you need to plan accordingly.
06-11-2014, 01:06 PM
#93
Race Car
I usually ask to drive a students car 1st 2 laps in the am. mostly to check the car.
On one occasion, I had a 930 with a stuck left front caliper. I unstuck it with some heavy braking.
In another, a student didn't know he had a tire rub (cutting) problem on left rear fender. (911sc) I spotted that in the intro, and chalked the tire and tried to hit every curb I could on that fender to see if it would rub again. (didn't). -had it rubbed off, I would not have instructed him in that car.
(we talked about rolling fender but didn't want to crack paint in a rushed approach).
Very Rarely will I drive a student car after the morning check out. But I will take them out in my car to show what I'm looking /not looking for.
YMMV.
On one occasion, I had a 930 with a stuck left front caliper. I unstuck it with some heavy braking.
In another, a student didn't know he had a tire rub (cutting) problem on left rear fender. (911sc) I spotted that in the intro, and chalked the tire and tried to hit every curb I could on that fender to see if it would rub again. (didn't). -had it rubbed off, I would not have instructed him in that car.
(we talked about rolling fender but didn't want to crack paint in a rushed approach).
Very Rarely will I drive a student car after the morning check out. But I will take them out in my car to show what I'm looking /not looking for.
YMMV.