PCA 2015 slider ruling - ???
12-31-2013, 02:35 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Yes that is correct as far as I know... Recaro apparently make/supply these pin-style sliders to PAG for Cups and street cars. The PAG part numbers are the same for many model years of Cups and street cars.
As I mentioned in other threads, I have been in communication with Walt about these rules and shared with him what I did to fit these sliders in my '75 911. By the way, they use a crossbar lever system for actuation, and this sets the spacing between the two slider rails. I believe that JWE cuts and re-welds this cross bar to decrease the spacing/width. I did not have to do this with my approach. But I wonder if you can use these sliders without modifying the crossbar in other Porsche race car applications, e.g., in a 944 or 951.
It would seem easiest for people to replace other double-lockers which may not comply with the Sabelt units as their design is likely very similar to Recaro and Sparco units.
The fabrication/compliance aspect to this seems to me to be the trickiest part. Perhaps even more complex with more degrees of freedom than fabrication/compliance with roll cages. Of course with the latter, various sanctioning bodies provide some detailed guidance in their written rules, often with pictures.
Again I encourage the process of discussion. Years ago PCA created a rule about driver's suits. The result is that it is legal to use a single layer SFI rated suit from 1985 with "flame retardant underwear," but you cannot use a brand new (new old stock) Sparco 3 layer FIA 1986 suit whether you use underwear or not. If I recall correctly, folks went out and bought new suits. I did not think this rule made sense but I did not comment during the discussion process because I don't race much with PCA. For my last PCA race (RRIV) I had to prove my FIA 1986 Sparco suit met the required SFI standard as well, even though Sparco elected not to apply the label. It was a PITA.
As I mentioned in other threads, I have been in communication with Walt about these rules and shared with him what I did to fit these sliders in my '75 911. By the way, they use a crossbar lever system for actuation, and this sets the spacing between the two slider rails. I believe that JWE cuts and re-welds this cross bar to decrease the spacing/width. I did not have to do this with my approach. But I wonder if you can use these sliders without modifying the crossbar in other Porsche race car applications, e.g., in a 944 or 951.
It would seem easiest for people to replace other double-lockers which may not comply with the Sabelt units as their design is likely very similar to Recaro and Sparco units.
The fabrication/compliance aspect to this seems to me to be the trickiest part. Perhaps even more complex with more degrees of freedom than fabrication/compliance with roll cages. Of course with the latter, various sanctioning bodies provide some detailed guidance in their written rules, often with pictures.
Again I encourage the process of discussion. Years ago PCA created a rule about driver's suits. The result is that it is legal to use a single layer SFI rated suit from 1985 with "flame retardant underwear," but you cannot use a brand new (new old stock) Sparco 3 layer FIA 1986 suit whether you use underwear or not. If I recall correctly, folks went out and bought new suits. I did not think this rule made sense but I did not comment during the discussion process because I don't race much with PCA. For my last PCA race (RRIV) I had to prove my FIA 1986 Sparco suit met the required SFI standard as well, even though Sparco elected not to apply the label. It was a PITA.
12-31-2013, 02:39 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Wow Scott, that looks like a newer Recaro product. It is not the same as the pin-style units to which I referred.
Hopefully Walt/PCA will check out this new product, and hopefully it results in another valid choice to meet new requirements.
Hopefully Walt/PCA will check out this new product, and hopefully it results in another valid choice to meet new requirements.
12-31-2013, 02:49 PM
#34
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I understand the rules to say, if you are using a slider mounted to the floor, the only requirement is that they have a 4" x 4" x 1/8" backing plates on the outboard side of the pan. No welding.
12-31-2013, 02:52 PM
#35
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It is my hope that the "new requirements" are abandoned.
The retroactive requirement requires changes to cars, sliders and mounts without any analysis, engineering or technical specifications whatsoever.
As far as I know, the need for the change has not yet been fully established.
The retroactive requirement requires changes to cars, sliders and mounts without any analysis, engineering or technical specifications whatsoever.
As far as I know, the need for the change has not yet been fully established.
12-31-2013, 03:53 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
It is my hope that the "new requirements" are abandoned.
The retroactive requirement requires changes to cars, sliders and mounts without any analysis, engineering or technical specifications whatsoever.
As far as I know, the need for the change has not yet been fully established.
The retroactive requirement requires changes to cars, sliders and mounts without any analysis, engineering or technical specifications whatsoever.
As far as I know, the need for the change has not yet been fully established.
12-31-2013, 04:48 PM
#43
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Currently not approved, I believe, by the powers that be.
I think the concept is cute though. Get really spendy on something like this, go through the approval process, and then go out to the shed and hack it and a perfectly good tub to make it fit.
All good though...at least I don't have to have a passenger seat, yet!
I think the concept is cute though. Get really spendy on something like this, go through the approval process, and then go out to the shed and hack it and a perfectly good tub to make it fit.
All good though...at least I don't have to have a passenger seat, yet!
12-31-2013, 04:52 PM
#44
After have just gone through installing floor mounts and the old Recaro sliders in my E36, I've got to say the "new" Recaro slider doesn't look that much different. It looks like they just updated the mechanism that unlocks the teeth from the slider rail. While the new red parts may make this engagement more forceful I don't see how it addresses slider rock nor floor mounting strength. The old Recaros are very difficult to unlock without the slider bar, so I don't think a stronger spring is really necessary. The slider rails look identical to the older units.
Also, while it may be a mute point for the Porsche crowed, that horizontal red bar is going to make adjusting for width difficult whereas the older Recaro and Sparco sliders have easily adjustable width between the rails.
-Mike
Also, while it may be a mute point for the Porsche crowed, that horizontal red bar is going to make adjusting for width difficult whereas the older Recaro and Sparco sliders have easily adjustable width between the rails.
-Mike
12-31-2013, 07:45 PM
#45
The Penguin King
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IF we could figure out how to make this work with other seats, and IF PCA will approve it, this new slider from Recaro would solve a lot of issues. I'm fairly certain this is the slider that is being used i the 991 Cups.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motors...p-1300-gt-seat
Expensive, but might be worth it.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motors...p-1300-gt-seat
Expensive, but might be worth it.