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NASA penalizes all rear engines.......

 
Old 12-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #31  
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I think a more interesting point is the line about "chassis and aerodynamics as delivered" - so that means a grand am spec bumper or rear wing would bump a cup car into "non production" class (ie 0.4 mod factor)? Cup car with wide fenders? If someone takes the side windows out is that non factory aero? Do the NASA inspectors even know what a grand am rear wing looks like compared to a "factory" rear wing? Can I take a 997 wing and put it on a 996? What about the factory grand am cars? What about just putting the taller rear wing uprights on a cup? Do car owners of second hand cup cars that ran grand am or world challenge even know that some part on their car is "non factory aerodynamics"? Whole can of worms there....
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:09 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by z06801 View Post
The C5 built by Phadt/VP fuels had detuned, large cube Mass Motorsports motor and driven by Ian(pro open wheel driver) who is a shoe for sure. When it got into the 1:58.xx it was on fresh A6s 345s all the way around. but 20-25 or so HP under for ST2. NASA DQ them off the podium for removing to much inner fender or something stupid after someone complained. I was thinking about moving to ST2 also just to run with a bigger field.
Correct, but it won't take much to make that car legal in 2014. And there was a 2.3 second gap to second fastest so they had room to spare.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Correct, but it won't take much to make that car legal in 2014. And there was a 2.3 second gap to second fastest so they had room to spare.
Ian's 58.78 in Friday's qualifying was 1.2 seconds faster than Bill Brinkoff, not 2.3. Bill won both qual races, had the class pole, and was the favorite until his ABS went out on the first lap. Next year the West National's race is at Sonoma/Sears Point which is Bill's home track. I seriously doubt anyone can beat him there....
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:42 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by claykos View Post
I think a more interesting point is the line about "chassis and aerodynamics as delivered" - so that means a grand am spec bumper or rear wing would bump a cup car into "non production" class (ie 0.4 mod factor)? Cup car with wide fenders? If someone takes the side windows out is that non factory aero? Do the NASA inspectors even know what a grand am rear wing looks like compared to a "factory" rear wing? Can I take a 997 wing and put it on a 996? What about the factory grand am cars? What about just putting the taller rear wing uprights on a cup? Do car owners of second hand cup cars that ran grand am or world challenge even know that some part on their car is "non factory aerodynamics"? Whole can of worms there....
Clay I think the aero restrictions only apply to ST3....
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:52 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior View Post
Clay I think the aero restrictions only apply to ST3....
7.5 Non-Production Vehicles Approved for “Production” Vehicle Status
The following vehicles are approved to use “Production” vehicle status in Super Touring,
provided that the frame/chassis, body/aero remain in the original manufactured
configuration as specified by the manufacturer. Both the “Non-Production Vehicle”
Modification Factor and the “Production Vehicle Body Type” Modification Factors will not be
assessed, but the vehicle specific Modification Factor listed below for each model will apply:
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:58 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by claykos View Post
7.5 Non-Production Vehicles Approved for “Production” Vehicle Status
The following vehicles are approved to use “Production” vehicle status in Super Touring,
provided that the frame/chassis, body/aero remain in the original manufactured
configuration as specified by the manufacturer. Both the “Non-Production Vehicle”
Modification Factor and the “Production Vehicle Body Type” Modification Factors will not be
assessed, but the vehicle specific Modification Factor listed below for each model will apply:
Ahh I missed that. Guess you'd better ask Greg....
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:01 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior View Post
Ian's 58.78 in Friday's qualifying was 1.2 seconds faster than Bill Brinkoff, not 2.3. Bill won both qual races, had the class pole, and was the favorite until his ABS went out on the first lap. Next year the West National's race is at Sonoma/Sears Point which is Bill's home track. I seriously doubt anyone can beat him there....
Bill ran a 2:01.042 in Friday qualifying. That's basically 2.3 seconds down to 1:58.78

http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/N...Qualifying.pdf
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:05 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Bill ran a 2:01.042 in Friday qualifying. That's basically 2.3 seconds down to 1:58.78

http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/N...Qualifying.pdf
You're right, I'm 0 for 2 today in this thread....
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:49 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Correct, but it won't take much to make that car legal in 2014. And there was a 2.3 second gap to second fastest so they had room to spare.
It will be ready for sure and is getting complete new bodywork right now. I think the wild looking flares with the square set up just kinda freaked a few folks out. Going into next year it will look more normal( I thought it looked great ) I'm driving my car out of the VP garage next season. Ian will be doing my set up work. I think it has a 1.56.xx in it. In ST1 TT1 form
How will the new rules rules affect your turbo Dez?
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:32 PM
  #40  
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On another note, this totally puts the kibosh on the ST1 VW Van with 996 turbo power I was planning to build.

lol
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:11 PM
  #41  
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Clay how do you read this? Does "that generation"mean no more 3.2, 3.6 transplants in 911s or 3.4,3.6 996 motors in boxsters? Clearly your old cup motored 911 would be a non production car and take the .4 hit but someone putting a 3.6 964 in a 2.4 911 would be out of generation and take a .7 hit in ST3 +.2 .for rear engine and we haven't left the barn?....

7.3.2 Restrictions and Limitations for Production Vehicles Only
The following rules do not apply to any vehicle that is taking the Modification
Factor assessment for “Non-Production Vehicle”, regardless of whether or not the vehicle was originally a Production vehicle. “OEM” is defined as any part that comes from the vehicle manufacturer either as a standard feature, a factory option, or on a factory optional trim model/package of that generation of the street-legal (in the U.S.A.) version of the vehicle.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by J richard View Post
Clay how do you read this? Does "that generation"mean no more 3.2, 3.6 transplants in 911s or 3.4,3.6 996 motors in boxsters? Clearly your old cup motored 911 would be a non production car and take the .4 hit but someone putting a 3.6 964 in a 2.4 911 would be out of generation and take a .7 hit in ST3 +.2 .for rear engine and we haven't left the barn?....

7.3.2 Restrictions and Limitations for Production Vehicles Only
The following rules do not apply to any vehicle that is taking the Modification
Factor assessment for “Non-Production Vehicle”, regardless of whether or not the vehicle was originally a Production vehicle. “OEM” is defined as any part that comes from the vehicle manufacturer either as a standard feature, a factory option, or on a factory optional trim model/package of that generation of the street-legal (in the U.S.A.) version of the vehicle.
I think that is only referring to the things listed under section 7.3.2 - which are like frame rails and shock towers, etc. And also aero parts. So I don't think engine conversions are included there at all. Engines should be open (that's the fundamental nature of ST, just power to weight).

However, I'm thinking this would cause any early 911s with a g50 conversion to take the .4 hit because of "trans tunnel" mods? Although they don't really have a trans tunnel.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:53 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by z06801 View Post
It will be ready for sure and is getting complete new bodywork right now. I think the wild looking flares with the square set up just kinda freaked a few folks out. Going into next year it will look more normal( I thought it looked great ) I'm driving my car out of the VP garage next season. Ian will be doing my set up work. I think it has a 1.56.xx in it. In ST1 TT1 form
How will the new rules rules affect your turbo Dez?
Nothing changes on how my car sits now or how I have been running it. I have never run below 6.0. But seeing as nationals is at my home track, best foot was coming forward. But I'm not building a car around these garbage rules.

The penalty is 100 lbs though from where I was planning on being
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:18 AM
  #44  
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Man that is a hit! Do you run DOTs?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:48 AM
  #45  
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Bunk.
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