Gary R.

Hard to believe this was 4 years ago already!

https://vimeo.com/5579459

Der ABT

man this is a strong motor for whoever buys it, GLWS someone will be VERY HAPPY

JCP911S

Yikes... call me old-fashioned, but my read of the rules says engine mods don't move you up from D to E....

What am I missing?

Signed,

Joe: The Dumb Dude

Gary R.

What engine "mods" are you referring to? I don't see any mention of engine mods...

BostonDMD

All kidding aside, Sean (and Gary) have always been beating all the D and 99% of the E cars........ is there anymore to say about how strong the motors are?

Disclosure, Sean (and Gary) are excellent drivers, and I am sure Sean wouldn't want to sell his Dan Jacobs motor to the first "Joe the racer", he probably wants to see his motor go to someone who wants to win and appreciates how great a deal Sean's motor is......

GLWS.....

Gary R.

Paolo, as always you are too kind, Reality is if you are contemplating entering the very competitive PCA Stock D class in a 78-83 SC this is the motor you want in your car. I beat Sean ONCE in the only race with no excuses from Sean or myself, other than that it was always his skill and the car that propelled him to the #1 position, and this is the motor that did it. None better at any cost!

JCP911S

Just busting you...

But, as a technicality...

Moving an SC from D to E is a "prepared" car that maintains its stock 3.0. There is no meaningful engine mod that triggers a class change.

So, if you are swapping your engine to move up a class, this means putting a stock 3.2 into an SC... which would trigger the "post-date, back-date" rules. This requires a fairly significant set of changes.

As a practicality, I don't think a ballasted SC with a 3.2 makes a darn bit of real-world difference, but that's what the rule book says.

I didn't write the rule book.

Gary R.

What is required for the update from SC to Carrera:

1. Engine swap with stock Motronic ECU control system, chip is free
2. Carrera calipers and rotors installed
3. 2nd and 5th gear changed to match US 84-86 Carrera or 5th gear only to match ROW 84-86 Carrera, or simply install a 84-86 US or ROW 915. (I'm doing the US conversion as I feel the ratios are better for racing). SC Transmission case needs to be notched out for sensor mounting, very easy to do.
4. Base weight needs to increase from 2702 to 2779 lbs. I'm told the 3.2 weighs 20kg. more than the 3.0 so a heavier battery will get me there if that is true... if not another slab of lead will suffice.

That's about it.

Not sure what this means -
Are you saying you don't think there is any practical difference between a chipped 3.2L Carrera and an 3.0L SC running 77lb lighter?

paradisenb

I'm sure you have done your research, but looking at MyLaps I don't see Carreras beating MH or JB. In fact, I don't see the big gain in lap times. I guess it happens occasionally but nothing suggests the car is so superior. (I wish MyLaps had car info) You and Sean run times, in the lower HP SC engine, that are competitive with most of the Carreras now. Why not just buy an 87-89 with a G50. That is where I see significant improvement in the cars.

Gary R.

Trust me Randy, the fully developed, chipped Carreras are putting out about 30 more RWHP than our US SCs (the 3.4's even more... ) and with only a 77lb increase and having bigger brakes we can't deny the advantage. I have a Euro motor sitting in a car in my driveway, if I go through it, balance blueprint and tune at best i'll see 210 RWHP and less TQ. Dan J. agrees the 3.2 is the way to go now that the Pandora's box of chips has been opened, that's all I needed to hear. It's too bad actually, but so are 3 way Motons in a Stock class car..

It all comes down to the chase, Sean and I (as does most everyone!) want the most competitive car for our chosen class and it's a constantly moving target. Hell, we are going to try and move from R6s this year, just as soon as I can find a guy to cut little grooves in Michelin Blues and paint the sidewalls all black..

John H

Don't get me wrong. I know you two are doing it correctly. I have not looked into the differences between the Carrera and SC's. I kinda assumed there was more to it. I just vaguely remembered some "backdating" issues a few years back and the fact PCA is a stickler on alldifferences between models. I think the prior issues were with 993's wanting to run as RS's if I recall right. Maybe that's not right...anyway.

Again, good luck to the OP on the engine sale. I am sure whoever gets it will be happy.

Carrera51

I wish I had an SC to put Sean's motor in.

Yep, opening up the chips for the E class 3.2 may have ended the reign of the Euro SC in E.

Gary R.

I found out today my engine is going into a beautiful Targa... oh the humanity.

JCP911S

Hardly. No, I i was just referring to all the detail changes required by the post-date/back date rule.... not important.


Anyway, this discussion is very interesting. I am (was?) considering dusting off my old "G" class SC and running it next year as a "prepared" E car. I see a fair number of SCs in E, but from this discussion, it sounds like, given equal drivers, there is no way it would be competitive.

You guys have run against them... before I start spending money, what is your experience?

Carrera51

If you take your D class SC (US Spec engine) and turn it into a prepared E car, then you can put big brakes, R&P, non stock tail wing wing (as long as it's below the roof line), bump steer kit, mod the shock mounts and possibly a few other things.

I say go out and run it as an E car as is, and see how you stack up to the 3.2 Carreras.