2014 PCA Rule Change Proposals for comment posted
08-19-2013, 08:09 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
That's odd, I thought that E Class 911's were allowed to change their chip as long as the stock settings were kept due to OEM chips not being available? It was done so they could "increase their horsepower"? As for the 2.5L Boxsters coming to D, I see no issue with that as D is slowly dying and the guys in E I raced at Arca were pretty darn competitive..
08-19-2013, 08:23 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
One isn't modded beyond class if they are following the rule, no matter how bad the rule is.
I agree the RR shocks are a ****ty situation and shouldn't have been allowed in stock but I would guess that at least 25% or more of G stock onward cars have RR shocks, maybe more. Moving a quarter of PCA stock to prepared overnight isn't the answer either for 1 mod that they did as allowed by the rules. I also realize that those that don't have RR shocks shouldn't feel like they have to spend $$$ on those to be competitive. That said, many of Dan's cars have done extremely well on Bilstiens from what I understand incl Baron and his RSA when he owned it.
I agree the RR shocks are a ****ty situation and shouldn't have been allowed in stock but I would guess that at least 25% or more of G stock onward cars have RR shocks, maybe more. Moving a quarter of PCA stock to prepared overnight isn't the answer either for 1 mod that they did as allowed by the rules. I also realize that those that don't have RR shocks shouldn't feel like they have to spend $$$ on those to be competitive. That said, many of Dan's cars have done extremely well on Bilstiens from what I understand incl Baron and his RSA when he owned it.
08-19-2013, 08:30 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone know whow is driving a 2.5 Boxster in E or whatever class? I want to look at lap times.
edit: Is there a way to see what car a drover is droving on MyLaps? If not, I wish there were.
edit: Is there a way to see what car a drover is droving on MyLaps? If not, I wish there were.
08-19-2013, 08:44 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
And E class 911 Carreras are not the only cars allowed to change the chip. I think it's something like 30 different models (I counted them once but I can't bring myself to do it again)... E class S2s, E class 951s, E class 968s, F class 911s, F class 944s and 968s, G class 911s, etc etc etc.
08-19-2013, 08:45 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Here is the slider and Boxster proposals:
‐CHANGE SEAT MOUNTING REQUIREMENTS FOR NO SEAT BACK BRACE
The current system is cumbersome to enforce, and assumes that all makers of FIA approved seats also make a
seat mount and a slider. However, most do not make both, and the FIA does not approve mounts or sliders.
The FIA does have a specification for the mounts. And the current rules requires the purchase of a new mount
and slider when a new seat is purchased if the driver wishes to continue to race without a seat back brace.
Only those who use a slider have a need not to use a brace, but where two drivers vary greatly in size, or
where a containment seat and roll cage members make exiting from the driving position very difficult, a slider
can be important. The slider used on Porsche's race cars is robust, and has stood the test of years of
professional racing. No testing is known to be done on any other type of slider to insure it can withstand the
same forces an FIA seat can withstand.
Here is the proposed rule, to take effect in 2015 if approved (so everyone has plenty of time to make a
change).
In order to race without a complying seat back brace or other exception, all the following conditions must
be met:
Page 2 of 6
1) An FIA approved race seat, within six years of its manufacture, and installed in accordance with the
manufacturer's instructions.
2) A metal seat mount, with each separate side formed from a single sheet of steel 4mm thick minimum, or
aluminum 5mm thick, commercially available as a race seat mount, and mounted in accordance with the
FIA's specifications and the manufacturer's instructions.
3) If a slider is used, it must be the slider used on the Porsche Cup cars (part number to be added), and the
mount attached to the slider with at least two 8mm bolts.
4) The seat mount, or the slider if used, must be attached to the chassis by at least one 10mm diameter
bolt at each end of the mount or slider. The chassis mount must be modified if not made to take a 10mm
bolt, and in any event must also be reinforced by additional steel welded around the mount so it cannot
flex, and the sheet metal holding the chassis attachment is reinforced to prevent pull through.
STOCK CLASSIFICATIONS
‐Move 2.5 liter E class Boxsters to D. The proponent points to the fact that other cars in E, which do not have
OBDII, are allowed to change chip settings, or otherwise increase their horsepower in ways not available to
the 2.5 liter Boxsters. Those in D might want to look at race results and lap times from events to see if such a
class change would be unfair.
‐CHANGE SEAT MOUNTING REQUIREMENTS FOR NO SEAT BACK BRACE
The current system is cumbersome to enforce, and assumes that all makers of FIA approved seats also make a
seat mount and a slider. However, most do not make both, and the FIA does not approve mounts or sliders.
The FIA does have a specification for the mounts. And the current rules requires the purchase of a new mount
and slider when a new seat is purchased if the driver wishes to continue to race without a seat back brace.
Only those who use a slider have a need not to use a brace, but where two drivers vary greatly in size, or
where a containment seat and roll cage members make exiting from the driving position very difficult, a slider
can be important. The slider used on Porsche's race cars is robust, and has stood the test of years of
professional racing. No testing is known to be done on any other type of slider to insure it can withstand the
same forces an FIA seat can withstand.
Here is the proposed rule, to take effect in 2015 if approved (so everyone has plenty of time to make a
change).
In order to race without a complying seat back brace or other exception, all the following conditions must
be met:
Page 2 of 6
1) An FIA approved race seat, within six years of its manufacture, and installed in accordance with the
manufacturer's instructions.
2) A metal seat mount, with each separate side formed from a single sheet of steel 4mm thick minimum, or
aluminum 5mm thick, commercially available as a race seat mount, and mounted in accordance with the
FIA's specifications and the manufacturer's instructions.
3) If a slider is used, it must be the slider used on the Porsche Cup cars (part number to be added), and the
mount attached to the slider with at least two 8mm bolts.
4) The seat mount, or the slider if used, must be attached to the chassis by at least one 10mm diameter
bolt at each end of the mount or slider. The chassis mount must be modified if not made to take a 10mm
bolt, and in any event must also be reinforced by additional steel welded around the mount so it cannot
flex, and the sheet metal holding the chassis attachment is reinforced to prevent pull through.
STOCK CLASSIFICATIONS
‐Move 2.5 liter E class Boxsters to D. The proponent points to the fact that other cars in E, which do not have
OBDII, are allowed to change chip settings, or otherwise increase their horsepower in ways not available to
the 2.5 liter Boxsters. Those in D might want to look at race results and lap times from events to see if such a
class change would be unfair.
08-19-2013, 08:49 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
One isn't modded beyond class if they are following the rule, no matter how bad the rule is.
I agree the RR shocks are a ****ty situation and shouldn't have been allowed in stock but I would guess that at least 25% or more of G stock onward cars have RR shocks, maybe more. Moving a quarter of PCA stock to prepared overnight isn't the answer either for 1 mod that they did as allowed by the rules. I also realize that those that don't have RR shocks shouldn't feel like they have to spend $$$ on those to be competitive. That said, many of Dan's cars have done extremely well on Bilstiens from what I understand incl Baron and his RSA when he owned it.
I agree the RR shocks are a ****ty situation and shouldn't have been allowed in stock but I would guess that at least 25% or more of G stock onward cars have RR shocks, maybe more. Moving a quarter of PCA stock to prepared overnight isn't the answer either for 1 mod that they did as allowed by the rules. I also realize that those that don't have RR shocks shouldn't feel like they have to spend $$$ on those to be competitive. That said, many of Dan's cars have done extremely well on Bilstiens from what I understand incl Baron and his RSA when he owned it.
And yes, Dan knows what springs and valving work, and works within the rules and their limitations.
08-19-2013, 09:05 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if they move 2.5 Box to D, it will walk all over the 20+ yrs their senior REAL D CARS. Great way to get rid of the old cars.
Reminds me of that semi rag, Pano, nothing but a sales mag for new pcars. I do like European Windows though.
Reminds me of that semi rag, Pano, nothing but a sales mag for new pcars. I do like European Windows though.
08-19-2013, 09:41 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I think the 2.5 Boxster in D isn't a bad fit.
I agree, time to ditch the passenger seat.
I agree, time to ditch the passenger seat.
08-19-2013, 10:39 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Re: the slider rule, I *AM* surprised that this made it. I had a long discussion about this very subject with one of the scrutineers at COTA. To say he was passionate about the subject is putting it mildly.
Oh, and I'm *CERTAIN* that PMNA or your local Porsche dealer will be ever so happy to sell those mounts to you. Current list on them is a mere $399.25 (per side - 996-521-929-90 = driver side, and since we have to have a passenger seat in Stock/Prepared classes, that part number is 996-521-930-90 - another $399.25 over at one of our "favorite" online suppliers)!!!
Just for grins, how much are those Recaro sliders?
BTW, where is the discussion on the spec tires for GTC3? *Some* of us got an email, but there's nothing in the rules proposal regarding tire changes away from the Michelin N1 tire. I *love* paying $2600 for a set of tires that will NOT cover a single race weekend! /
Oh, and I'm *CERTAIN* that PMNA or your local Porsche dealer will be ever so happy to sell those mounts to you. Current list on them is a mere $399.25 (per side - 996-521-929-90 = driver side, and since we have to have a passenger seat in Stock/Prepared classes, that part number is 996-521-930-90 - another $399.25 over at one of our "favorite" online suppliers)!!!
Just for grins, how much are those Recaro sliders? BTW, where is the discussion on the spec tires for GTC3? *Some* of us got an email, but there's nothing in the rules proposal regarding tire changes away from the Michelin N1 tire. I *love* paying $2600 for a set of tires that will NOT cover a single race weekend! /
08-20-2013, 08:59 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
The Boxster 2.5 and 2.7 both in E with a 29lb difference is silly. If it were not for SPB there would be many more 2.5 Boxsters in the Stock class now.
08-20-2013, 09:17 AM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
They seem to make good "F" cars. At the NJMP CLub Race next weekend, there are (7) people out of (129) in "F". There are about twice as many "E" cars. Earlier this year at WGI, there were (16) "F" cars out of a total of (269).