Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Mont Tremblant Video and Data

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-14-2013 | 12:13 PM
  #16  
Dwane's Avatar
Dwane
Race Car
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,741
Likes: 18
From: Montreal
Default

Looks like you are too slow entering namrow...I brake before the compression and let the hill scrub off the rest of the speed.
Does a 914 rotate like a 911 under braking?
I am now driving a 944 Turbo so many people may say I don't have an idea what I'm saying....
Old 07-14-2013 | 12:17 PM
  #17  
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
Matt Romanowski
Thread Starter
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,725
Likes: 1,019
From: Manchester, NH
Default

Originally Posted by Dwane
Looks like you are too slow entering namrow...I brake before the compression and let the hill scrub off the rest of the speed.
Does a 914 rotate like a 911 under braking?
I am now driving a 944 Turbo so many people may say I don't have an idea what I'm saying....
I'll have to try that. The 914 is very neutral and rotates a little more like the 944.
Old 07-14-2013 | 12:25 PM
  #18  
GuyIncognito's Avatar
GuyIncognito
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,986
Likes: 4
From: FL
Default

Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski
I think I'm close on initial brake application, but we have some old tires that might need to be flat spotted.


you could be doing what that car/brake/brake pad/tire is capable of, I just noticed that the leading edge of the brake traces aren't as vertical as I'm used to seeing. but that could be the difference between cars/pads/tires on previous telemetry I've seen in the past.

I never really thought about building lat G quicker. I'll have to try that some.
that was the biggest thing for me on the switch from street to R-comps on a road/GT car, learning to use the grip early. from mid corner to exit it's easy, but trusting that the grip will be there on rotation/turn in is tough.

You noticed the GT3 too? I felt bad....
first rule of tracking: NEVER, EVER let the GT3s by

Last edited by GuyIncognito; 07-14-2013 at 02:59 PM.
Old 07-14-2013 | 12:33 PM
  #19  
Dwane's Avatar
Dwane
Race Car
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,741
Likes: 18
From: Montreal
Default

Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski
I'll have to try that. The 914 is very neutral and rotates a little more like the 944.
In the 911 I would have the same exit as yours in 7, in the 944 it's a straighter shoot for carousel out of 7.(basically no steering input)
I catch a lot of cars coming in and out of namrow now with the 944. I don't have to wait for the car to get in the groove before getting on the gas out of namrow with the 944.
I was sure you were gonna get by the 993 on the front stretch...
Did you try staying inside(right) coming into the esses? The 944 loves it....
Old 07-14-2013 | 08:52 PM
  #20  
dan212's Avatar
dan212
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 143
From: NYC
Default

2:02

Last edited by dan212; 07-14-2013 at 09:10 PM.
Old 07-14-2013 | 11:56 PM
  #21  
Matt Lane's Avatar
Matt Lane
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,463
Likes: 196
From: Montreal, QC
Default

Originally Posted by Dwane
Looks like...many people may say I don't have an idea what I'm saying....
Fair enough.

Old 07-15-2013 | 10:46 AM
  #22  
Van's Avatar
Van
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,008
Likes: 97
From: Hyde Park, NY
Default

Matt, I've never driven there... or seen data from there, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

The two big things I see from your data are: look at the deceleration rates on the speed trace (green arrows) and see how the right most one (last braking zone) has a much faster rate of deceleration (steeper slope). Why don't the other braking zones have that same rate of deceleration? If the car can slow down quicker, you can wait until *later* to start braking, e.g. staying on the throttle longer on the straights.

The second thing I see, is your brake release, trail braking. Look at the red arrows in the combined G chart. See how there's a dip between the braking bit and the cornering bit? There's room for improvement here! Again, since you're releasing early, you're probably getting on the brakes early...
Attached Images  
Old 07-15-2013 | 03:07 PM
  #23  
RickBetterley's Avatar
RickBetterley
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 37
From: On Rennlist, apparently
Default

Originally Posted by Van
Matt, I've never driven there... or seen data from there, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
Van - get thyself to Tremblant. You will like it as much as you like Watkins Glen. Matt and I (and others) are just back from the Northeast Region event which coincides with the Mont-Tremblant International Blues Festival. 3 days on a world class track.
Like Cups 'n Saucers, I do my best to never miss the event.
Old 07-15-2013 | 04:04 PM
  #24  
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
Matt Romanowski
Thread Starter
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,725
Likes: 1,019
From: Manchester, NH
Default

Good call on the slopes Van. It's funny how sometimes you (I) try to look really deep into the data and the basics are still right in front of you.

In general, I've been trying to trailbrake better. I still have a ways to go!
Old 07-15-2013 | 09:59 PM
  #25  
Van's Avatar
Van
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,008
Likes: 97
From: Hyde Park, NY
Default

Can you post up a throttle position chart? There's usually room to improve throttle application...

Also, what are those little blips on the brake pressure chart in segment 2?? Looking at your video, you shouldn't have needed that...

It looks like - both from your video and your steering trace - that you're battling understeer once you get back onto the power. It might be worth making your rear shock compression a little stiffer and/or the front rebound a little lighter. This will slow down the transfer of weight to the rear when you get on the gas. You may also be able to play around with softening your front sway bar a little bit.

In a few corners, it looks like you apply the throttle some, then lift to get the car to rotate more, then you're back on the gas. If you plan your events a little better (and/or adjust the grip of the car a little bit), you can get on the gas a little *later* than you have been... but *omit* the lift, so you're actually at full throttle sooner.

That's just my 2 cents.
Old 07-15-2013 | 10:46 PM
  #26  
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
Matt Romanowski
Thread Starter
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,725
Likes: 1,019
From: Manchester, NH
Default

Here is a trace with the throttle position. The car is very neutral. I included a quick X-Y with steering and lat G too.
Attached Images  
Old 07-15-2013 | 11:22 PM
  #27  
Van's Avatar
Van
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,008
Likes: 97
From: Hyde Park, NY
Default

I recommend that you calibrate your steering angle to match the angle of the front wheels - not the angle of the steering wheel. That way, by comparing the front wheel angle to the akerman angle of the radius (based on corner radius and your car's wheelbase), you can graphically evaluate over- and understeer.

Be careful of the blanket term "neutral"... Race cars are very dynamic things, and with all the weight transfer and various inputs of the driver, nothing is static. Your car may be neutral at steady-state cornering, but that will change due to the weight transfer of trailbraking into the corner and accelerating out of the corner.

Have you taken John Block's AIM seminars? http://www.auto-ware.com/webinar_home.html I highly recommend them, and he'll get you to focus on looking at the data and correlating it to what you *feel* at different parts of the corner.
Old 07-15-2013 | 11:47 PM
  #28  
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
Matt Romanowski
Thread Starter
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,725
Likes: 1,019
From: Manchester, NH
Default

Originally Posted by Van
I recommend that you calibrate your steering angle to match the angle of the front wheels - not the angle of the steering wheel. That way, by comparing the front wheel angle to the akerman angle of the radius (based on corner radius and your car's wheelbase), you can graphically evaluate over- and understeer.

Be careful of the blanket term "neutral"... Race cars are very dynamic things, and with all the weight transfer and various inputs of the driver, nothing is static. Your car may be neutral at steady-state cornering, but that will change due to the weight transfer of trailbraking into the corner and accelerating out of the corner.

Have you taken John Block's AIM seminars? http://www.auto-ware.com/webinar_home.html I highly recommend them, and he'll get you to focus on looking at the data and correlating it to what you *feel* at different parts of the corner.
Calibrating to the wheel angle is on the to do list. With everything else, it hasn't be done yet. I've done John's webinars, but it seems like everyone has their own measure of under/oversteer. The data can help you, but much of it still comes down to feel.

This car is very responsive and doesn't have any bad tendencies on entry, mid, or corner exit (even though it really should because of a couple suspension things). Having a couple of pros in the car have said the same as well.



Quick Reply: Mont Tremblant Video and Data



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:09 AM.