Gary R.

So you paid just a hair over fair market value Van!

hf1

I don't get this. You can only spend $500 for the car but the amount you spend on "fixing" it (parts, panels, custom machined bits, labor, etc.) is unlimited? (Edit: I admit to not having read the rules. Just trying to understand the concept.)

FFaust

And there is no limit on safety equipment.

txhokie4life

Ugly cars go cheap.

As long as it states that it runs. I scour CL, salvage sales, etc.

Folks just don't want 30 year old crap sitting in their driveways.....

Of course that crap is my Spec Krapcan :-)

Mike

ninjacoco

While we're posting pictures...

Puffalump #1


Puffalump #2


Ehhhhh...yes and no. Chump and LeMons seem happy with stock parts. If that's what came on your car, they're not going to give you much grief for replacing it with the exact same thing. Any kind of custom machined bits are usually out unless it's truly a DIY thing, and worth under that $500 budget after all things are considered. If they think it puts you over that $500 limit, boom, penalty laps. So, even if you have all the tools at home and can pull it off, showing up with a fully-built racing motor is a bad idea.

Wheels, tires and other "safety" bits are exempt from the spending cap. (...which means I'm PO'd that all the pretty orange wheels don't come in 15s with the 944's lug pattern! You know, because themed racecar. Duh.)

Theme is exempt, too. Puffalump #1 got Organizer's Choice, and I wouldn't mind another theme-related trophy, so it looks like Puffalump #3 is going to be devouring pastel paint and wallets everywhere.

All things considered, you're paying less for the car itself, but it's still racing. Tires alone were worth more than that $500 cap. Prepare to eat ramen.

hf1

What is the safety record (incidents, crashes, injuries, fatalities, etc.) of these races? Is there a lot of " rubbin' is racin' "?

PorscheDoc

Actually very safe. We have seen a few cars get banged up, but I have seen FAR worse damage to cup cars at PCA races. For the most part, the cars going down the track are going at a significantly slower pace than modern day track cars. Old 944's, e30's, and miatas can only go so fast down the straights. Safety equipment is all very closely scrutinized, so your cars have to be safe to make tech. No short changing that. Chump car does not allow excessive contact. If they see something that is more than a slight UNINTENTIONAL rub, they are bringing you in and you will sit for as long as they feel like screwing with you for being stupid.

As for the unlimited budget on fixing the car, that is a yes and no kind of thing. You can replace things stock for stock with new if needed, but you can not add anything that will increase the performance of the car (coilovers, lowering springs, solid bushings, etc). You will get penalty laps when they find that stuff in tech. Tech is always looking for the cheaters.....

Like any series, people will find ways to interpret the rules to their advantage, and chump is all about documentation proving your case.....

ninjacoco

So, yes and no to the "rubbin's racin'" shenanigans.

LeMons has a pretty zero tolerance policy for that. It still happens, but they're very quick to bring in all parties (even those who just got punted and aren't at fault) after contact--which kind of blows, but I guess that's their way of dealing with a bunch of wildly varying levels of talent and no prior driving/school/licensing requirements.

ChumpCar lets non-stop-inducing contact fly (unless, as mentioned, you're intentionally bumping someone to be a pain) and I think drivers are more aggressive in that series accordingly. It definitely varies wildly with who shows up, too. The guys who've been at it a while realize that the fastest way around a corner isn't through someone else's bumper. I've never seen a crash like the one that killed my 944 at a Chump event until...well, the crash that killed my 944--WTF. To the series' credit, there were some people sitting for a while after that and was a big crackdown on blowing through flags the rest of the weekend.

Either way, as Doc said, speeds are lower, so you're probably just going to end up with a couple dings and scrapes from a race weekend--big catastrophic punts are pretty unusual, and even ours didn't result in any injuries. Both series take on-track safety pretty seriously, IMHO--just like any other race, there's EMT staff on hand and ready if something happens, but I've never seen them need to be used.

I didn't find safety tech in either series to be all that closely scrutinized, so just make sure you meet or exceed their requirements on your own. That is not something to cheap out on or meh about on anyway given that some of the dudes on track haven't even heard of an HPDE before showing up to do a beater race.

samluke

There used to be a fair amount of body contact in chumps. Generally not hard, but friendly nudges etc.

Chumps has tightened up, (at least in the mid west) and now enforces black flags if there is malicious contact.

For the most part, drivers behave well and give each other room. It is endurance racing, so a black flag penalty can hurt your position, and you have to have a car at the end of the race.

Van

ChumpCar has a list of "approved $500 cars - as long as they're STOCK" - and the 944 is on that list. We did a bit of "freshening up" with new CV joints, wheel bearings, fuel pump, starter, etc. because we wanted to reduce the chance of a mechanical failure so everyone could get their seat time.

IMHO, it's a good idea to get the best performing "stock" car you can. The 944 does handle pretty well, but is a bit underpowered. Believe it or not, the E36 BMW is on that "approved" list, and they are very strong performers in Chump.


I only have one data point to go by - the Chump Glen race. There was definitely some "rubbing and bumping" some we inflicted (attempting aggressive passes) and some we received (a team hit us under a full course caution and had to sit a 15 minute penalty). But we also had a lot of clean racing when we tried harder / turned down the aggression.

There were several single-car incidents that required red flags so safety crews could get the damaged car off the track. There was one incident where a driver was transported to the hospital, but only sustained minor injuries.

Also, IMHO, there was a large spread in the "quality level" of the roll cage fabrication... and I was surprised that a HANS was only a recommendation, not a requirement.

txhokie4life

In the hands of equally competent drivers, depending on the track, the 944 is a mid to upper mid-pack car.

As van says -- it handles well -- but it is underpowered. Miatas because they can be so light - AND - due to the typical experience level do well in Texas.

The 944's hang well with the M30's, but the M36 turns us into moving chicanes.

There are a few Lexus here and they are very quick. SC300's I think. There's always a well sorted
Mustang that does well -- the power in the straights typically holds off the better handling cars
through the twisties.

Most contact I've seen is of the cockpit error variety. I really have not witnessed much rubbing is racing incidents. I'm sure they happen, just haven't seen it myself.

There is a wide range of drivers skills and experiences.

Mike

LuigiVampa

Thanks to everyone for sharing their information. I have been looking around some of the forums out there and they have some good tips - some really horrible ones as well.

Still looking for more people for a CT based team to compete in 2014! I'm determined to do this. If Massa keeps crashing out Ferrari may release him to us.

ninjacoco

Heh, our blue 944 (back when it was another team's car) actually won Chump once. Just have to keep going when the E36s/Mustangs/Lexuses/etc. break...

I think they keep a lot of iffy things on the books to keep these series cheap to run, but yeah--I don't trust those little foam neck collars. I'm probably gonna have the stinkiest HANS device evar, but I've offered to share it with teammates if they want to borrow it for their runs.

I know LeMons is making a big push to use a HANS or similar device--even throwing in a few "get out of penalty free" cards if you purchase one through their vendor. Part of me hopes this is leading up to a "guys, we're mandating this soon" announcement. They're cheap enough to find used nowadays anyway.

Circuit Motorsports

Now that I sold the SRF I'm looking for some teams to jump onto as well. The forums have some pretty good tips. I do like they finally made a list of cars that are 500 bucks. Gives people leeway to find a car that may be 1000 bucks because they just arne't lucky at finding a 500 example of the same car.

The only thinng I've noticed is the quality of cage work is highly variable. Along with seats. Lots of really cheaply done, minimalist cars out there that I won't ever get in.

Horus2000

It's my understanding that Chumpcar will be changing their rules for 2014 regarding car value. Apparently each make and model will have an automatic designated value (no more average internet value) in stock form. Some models will most likely be over $500 - and hence penalty laps.

If I were looking to get into Chump and didn't already have a car in hand, I would probably wait until that list is published (rumored to be in September) before purchasing/building a car.