Why are the non "marquee" pca races not doing well?
07-08-2013, 10:49 AM
#61
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^^ Exactly. and remember...ALL of the people you are dealing with at and around a PCA Club race are VOLUNTEERS, taking LOTS and LOTS of their personal time off to make it fun for the rest of us. So please excuse them for being a little conservative and/or overly cautious with how they interpret the rules - last thing anyone wants to do is be the reason that something was overlooked and caused a problem.
PCA insurance is VERY specific in what/who can race in a PCA Club Race. We (PCA) enjoy some of the best rates out there for our events BECAUSE of the way we run and control them.
And, believe it or not...there is a whole other world of PCA out there that relies on our OVERALL relationship we have with our insurance carrier. It covers everything from racing and Drivers Ed to autocross, social drives and tech sessions. To manage such a large body of risk opportunities, we have to have rules in place.
Could things sometimes go more smoothly? I'm sure they could, but go back again to my first paragraph here...it's all volunteers running it that 1) don't do this for a living, and 2) probably only do race related activities once or twice a year...
Oh, and to complain about having to join PCA to race? Nadine and I ran an SCCA Hillclimb a couple weeks ago - first SCCA event we ever did: We both had to join SCCA and we both had to pay for SCCA Time Trial provisional licenses. Nadine had to pay for a rookie/novice license too because she did not have any racing experience. So...$150ish later, we could run a single hill climb event. About the same as the $46 PCA membership and $100 race license fee
How much does a set of tires cost again???
PCA insurance is VERY specific in what/who can race in a PCA Club Race. We (PCA) enjoy some of the best rates out there for our events BECAUSE of the way we run and control them.
And, believe it or not...there is a whole other world of PCA out there that relies on our OVERALL relationship we have with our insurance carrier. It covers everything from racing and Drivers Ed to autocross, social drives and tech sessions. To manage such a large body of risk opportunities, we have to have rules in place.
Could things sometimes go more smoothly? I'm sure they could, but go back again to my first paragraph here...it's all volunteers running it that 1) don't do this for a living, and 2) probably only do race related activities once or twice a year...
Oh, and to complain about having to join PCA to race? Nadine and I ran an SCCA Hillclimb a couple weeks ago - first SCCA event we ever did: We both had to join SCCA and we both had to pay for SCCA Time Trial provisional licenses. Nadine had to pay for a rookie/novice license too because she did not have any racing experience. So...$150ish later, we could run a single hill climb event. About the same as the $46 PCA membership and $100 race license fee
How much does a set of tires cost again???
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07-08-2013, 10:31 PM
#62
As an example of good marketing, our first race of the year with 944 Cup was with SCCA Northern NJ region at Pocono. I have a PCA license and the process was very easy. Registered and paid online. At the track, registration was quick and took 5 mins plus $10 for a weekend SCCA membership. They accepted the PCA license with no issue. Tech was quick and easy too. Everybody was very helpful and even though we weren't SCCA, were happy and glad to see us. They even gave us a split start even though we had a very small turnout. Nothing but thumbs up to the region and SCCA from this racer.
I heard that event was well received. We in the NER of SCCA have talked at length about how to address these same issues. These are some of the ideas we've come up with. It's nice to hear from your perspective that it was streamlined and easy. That means you'll probably be back if offered. A win win. We've looked at other options as well. As a member of the SCCA, BMWCCA and PCA in addition to instructing for SCDA we all experience the worry of low car count.
It seems guys have more options, less discretionary income and increasing costs to stay at the pointy end. Hoosiers go up every season..... At least that's what I'm hearing....
Rob
07-09-2013, 12:36 AM
#63
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And as a follow up to the POC vs PCA licensing discussion, several years ago I was stewarding a PCA CR in California. I was introduced to the POC president. I mentioned to him that I knew several PCA racers who were interested in racing with POC at Laguna Seca that year as PCA did not have a race there. I made it clear we would join POC, our cars would meet all POC rules, we had Full PCA CR licenses etc. he told me we'd have to go thru the POC time trials, etc first, to get our licenses, which obviously would prevent us from racing with them at Laguna, since it required several events in California, which wouldn't work for us from further East. Not sure whether that's changed, as I do know Susan Shire has a good relationship with the POC licensing administrator but....
FWIW, at this years joint event POC registered racers made up roughly 70 of the 85 cars racing and most enjoyed the joint event. Many of them talked with Susan over the phone and No one had anything but complements to say abut her. It's too bad the SDR region doesn't treat our register with the same respect we showed Susan.....
Last edited by jrgordonsenior; 07-09-2013 at 01:16 AM.
07-09-2013, 12:43 AM
#64
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At Auto Club Speedway the POC racers who were "forced" to join PCA and meet all PCA CR rules were racing with PCA, under PCA's insurance and PCA rules. Seems pretty simple to me that if they want to be running with a club they should join the club, pay the same as other club members and run under the same rules.
What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
I heard most about the tech bureaucracy and I believe that was most upsetting to those that attended. Having to tech 70 cars late into on the evening soured a lot of the POC participants. It really didn't have to be that way, PCA could have accepted our tech stamps. We're pretty **** about that stuff....
As you know we're also joining PCA at their September 20-22 event at Miller Motorsports. We chose to run in our own run group at this event subject to our own tech inspections....
Last edited by jrgordonsenior; 07-09-2013 at 01:08 AM.
07-09-2013, 09:59 AM
#65
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I think we've gotten off topic here, "Why are the non "marquee" pca races not doing well?" This topic is of great concern to all the smaller races on the PCA schedule.
Personally, I don't think it is ONE specific thing that is hurting races, it's a combination: Scheduling, economy/budgets, perceptions (it always rains at XX race or its always too hot at YY race), competition (NASA, POC, etc) and honestly I think some of the rules on what is/isn't allowed on cars. With all the things allowed in PCA Stock Classes, to 'build' a competitive stock class car nowadays can cost a small fortune.
I, personally, like the smaller races better: more laid back, less chance of incidents, just an overall higher 'Fun Factor" level for me. And isn't that what PCA Racing is supposed to be all about? Fun??
Personally, I don't think it is ONE specific thing that is hurting races, it's a combination: Scheduling, economy/budgets, perceptions (it always rains at XX race or its always too hot at YY race), competition (NASA, POC, etc) and honestly I think some of the rules on what is/isn't allowed on cars. With all the things allowed in PCA Stock Classes, to 'build' a competitive stock class car nowadays can cost a small fortune.
I, personally, like the smaller races better: more laid back, less chance of incidents, just an overall higher 'Fun Factor" level for me. And isn't that what PCA Racing is supposed to be all about? Fun??
07-09-2013, 10:30 AM
#66
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I think we've gotten off topic here, "Why are the non "marquee" pca races not doing well?" This topic is of great concern to all the smaller races on the PCA schedule.
Personally, I don't think it is ONE specific thing that is hurting races, it's a combination: Scheduling, economy/budgets, perceptions (it always rains at XX race or its always too hot at YY race), competition (NASA, POC, etc) and honestly I think some of the rules on what is/isn't allowed on cars. With all the things allowed in PCA Stock Classes, to 'build' a competitive stock class car nowadays can cost a small fortune.
I, personally, like the smaller races better: more laid back, less chance of incidents, just an overall higher 'Fun Factor" level for me. And isn't that what PCA Racing is supposed to be all about? Fun??
Personally, I don't think it is ONE specific thing that is hurting races, it's a combination: Scheduling, economy/budgets, perceptions (it always rains at XX race or its always too hot at YY race), competition (NASA, POC, etc) and honestly I think some of the rules on what is/isn't allowed on cars. With all the things allowed in PCA Stock Classes, to 'build' a competitive stock class car nowadays can cost a small fortune.
I, personally, like the smaller races better: more laid back, less chance of incidents, just an overall higher 'Fun Factor" level for me. And isn't that what PCA Racing is supposed to be all about? Fun??
07-09-2013, 11:07 AM
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I also prefer the smaller races as long as there is in class competition. Smaller events are less stressful and offer more opportunities to socialize. RRR event is small and I always have the most fun there. Of course the tap is always flowing when those guys host an event, that may have something to do with it. 
07-09-2013, 11:22 AM
#68
BIR in Brainerd, MN has a great event and is on the smaller, laid back side. This year, July 27 & 28 it looks like they are getting a good number of E class drivers. Maybe the new track (new pavement with a much wider track) is appealing to many. It is one of those track that everyone should do at least once.
07-09-2013, 11:31 AM
#69
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Class consolidation makes for better racing with more cars in class. Eliminating the slicks vs dot tire classes was a step in the right direction by PCA.
In contrast to the downturn in attendance highlighted in this thread, all East Coast PCA races here in the East set new record highs for the combine classes of SP1, 2, and 3 classes: the Glen, Sebring, RR, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta.
In contrast to the downturn in attendance highlighted in this thread, all East Coast PCA races here in the East set new record highs for the combine classes of SP1, 2, and 3 classes: the Glen, Sebring, RR, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta.
07-09-2013, 12:07 PM
#71
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I am not sure what the answer is, but IMHO the same reasons that causes "marquee" races to get really big, have had the reverse effect on the smaller races. I do not know if it is the cars or the racers, but it seems that the number of shops bringing transporters, many from from far away places, to "marquee races has increased, likely due to racers interest. On the other hand, most of the racers who want to be supported, do not want to go to smaller races that are not at destination tracks. Why pay to go to SP when you can go to WG?
I remember 6-7 years ago when I was going to some venues to check out the evets in the Mid-atlantic area to talk to racers about racing, there were races at LRP, WG, and SP and they were all well attended. There were no races at NJMP or VIR.
Also, I am not sure that there are too many classes compared to 6-7 yrs ago. The biggest increase in class has come from the introduction of 6-7 Cups. Other classes like GTB just have had a diluting effect on current stock class. 996 or Cayman would be in H/I instead of GTB, but that does not answer why they are not showing up.
I remember 6-7 years ago when I was going to some venues to check out the evets in the Mid-atlantic area to talk to racers about racing, there were races at LRP, WG, and SP and they were all well attended. There were no races at NJMP or VIR.
Also, I am not sure that there are too many classes compared to 6-7 yrs ago. The biggest increase in class has come from the introduction of 6-7 Cups. Other classes like GTB just have had a diluting effect on current stock class. 996 or Cayman would be in H/I instead of GTB, but that does not answer why they are not showing up.
07-09-2013, 04:48 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
For our Kansas Region Race, we typically used Heartland Park. In our best years we had over 90 racers and 50 DEers. Numbers have fallen consistently over the years, as the economy got worse and the track detreriorated.
This year we switched to the new Kansas Speedway roval. Awesome facility, fun infield, lots to do in the area, Sir Stirling Moss showing up. I was convinced we were heading for a sell out.
It was the complete opposite. We had just over 20 cars sign up for the race. I personally had a blast. Had there been 40 cars of more even performance (as compared to D-Cup cars), it would have been much more fun, with much more drafting down the main straight and battling into 1.
I still can't put my finger on why the turnout was so low. COTA taking budgets, clash with Great Plains/Hastings, clash with VIR, Kansas in the summer, Roval? Any feedback much appreciated as we now have to think what to do next year.
This year we switched to the new Kansas Speedway roval. Awesome facility, fun infield, lots to do in the area, Sir Stirling Moss showing up. I was convinced we were heading for a sell out.
It was the complete opposite. We had just over 20 cars sign up for the race. I personally had a blast. Had there been 40 cars of more even performance (as compared to D-Cup cars), it would have been much more fun, with much more drafting down the main straight and battling into 1.
I still can't put my finger on why the turnout was so low. COTA taking budgets, clash with Great Plains/Hastings, clash with VIR, Kansas in the summer, Roval? Any feedback much appreciated as we now have to think what to do next year.
07-09-2013, 05:36 PM
#73
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07-09-2013, 05:52 PM
#74
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07-11-2013, 09:05 AM
#75
For our Kansas Region Race, we typically used Heartland Park. In our best years we had over 90 racers and 50 DEers. Numbers have fallen consistently over the years, as the economy got worse and the track detreriorated.
This year we switched to the new Kansas Speedway roval. Awesome facility, fun infield, lots to do in the area, Sir Stirling Moss showing up. I was convinced we were heading for a sell out.
It was the complete opposite. We had just over 20 cars sign up for the race. I personally had a blast. Had there been 40 cars of more even performance (as compared to D-Cup cars), it would have been much more fun, with much more drafting down the main straight and battling into 1.
I still can't put my finger on why the turnout was so low. COTA taking budgets, clash with Great Plains/Hastings, clash with VIR, Kansas in the summer, Roval? Any feedback much appreciated as we now have to think what to do next year.
This year we switched to the new Kansas Speedway roval. Awesome facility, fun infield, lots to do in the area, Sir Stirling Moss showing up. I was convinced we were heading for a sell out.
It was the complete opposite. We had just over 20 cars sign up for the race. I personally had a blast. Had there been 40 cars of more even performance (as compared to D-Cup cars), it would have been much more fun, with much more drafting down the main straight and battling into 1.
I still can't put my finger on why the turnout was so low. COTA taking budgets, clash with Great Plains/Hastings, clash with VIR, Kansas in the summer, Roval? Any feedback much appreciated as we now have to think what to do next year.
Only roval worth driving is Daytona.
Just my opinion. Always a few of us made it to Heartland.